Evolution Flash vs Power Commander

[4StrokeAddict]

Since I'm getting an MPI trubo for my Viper from my dealer, I have several questions...

1) I'm experiencing lean start and idle issues. I've had a couple kick backs on start. I understand the evolution flash is fixing this. Is power commander doing the same.

2) I'm assuming the Power Commander is just intercepting and modifying the codes to control AFR and boost. Is this the case?

3) Are there advantages to Evolution flash over Power Commander or visa versa? I kind of like the idea of being able to adjust the map if I find a bad area in the throttle, my off idle lean pop for example... Honestly, I'm currently ignorant in how all this works and don't know where to even start. Not to say I can't learn...

4) On a stock MPI system, do you need a boost/AFR gauge, or is it assumed safe with the low boost numbers?

5) What boost/AFR gauge do you recommend? I really liked the look of the Koso but read lots of bad reviews... I am leaning toward the pod 300 with a power commander. If I go flash, I'm looking at the AEM since it has boost control on the gauge. I see some are using the innovation gauges as well. What do you all like?

6) What are safe AFR/Boost numbers with a base MPI kit without inter-cooler?

 

[titanrcr]

Since I'm getting an MPI trubo for my Viper from my dealer, I have several questions...

1) I'm experiencing lean start and idle issues. I've had a couple kick backs on start. I understand the evolution flash is fixing this. Is power commander doing the same.

2) I'm assuming the Power Commander is just intercepting and modifying the codes to control AFR and boost. Is this the case?

3) Are there advantages to Evolution flash over Power Commander or visa versa? I kind of like the idea of being able to adjust the map if I find a bad area in the throttle, my off idle lean pop for example... Honestly, I'm currently ignorant in how all this works and don't know where to even start. Not to say I can't learn...

4) On a stock MPI system, do you need a boost/AFR gauge, or is it assumed safe with the low boost numbers?

5) What boost/AFR gauge do you recommend? I really liked the look of the Koso but read lots of bad reviews... I am leaning toward the pod 300 with a power commander. If I go flash, I'm looking at the AEM since it has boost control on the gauge. I see some are using the innovation gauges as well. What do you all like?

6) What are safe AFR/Boost numbers with a base MPI kit without inter-cooler?

1) Yamaha is coming out with a new flash to address these issues, WE HOPE!

2) Power Commander adjusts the fuel curve, Not Boost

3) EVO flash changes timing, I would not be adding timing if you are running boost.

4) Most will say yes on the gauges, I am running a power commander on an intercooled 6 psi Hurricane setup so no gauges here. When I go to higher boost levels I will be running the POD 300.

5) POD 300 with PC-V

 

[cannondale27]

In theory a Power Commander with Ignition Module should be able to do anything the Evo flash does and more since you can also have stutter and adjust. Problem can occur because the PC is intercepting the stock ECU signals. This can throw codes or just plain miss the signals so to speak. I have never had a problem with PC but have seen them.

 

[yamahaguy]

You don't need gauges for the Yamaha MPI turbo kit. With the low boost numbers and they way its engineered its more then safe. I would be more worried about the rest of the sled falling apart before worrying about the a motor with the base kit. If it was not safe Yamaha would not have put there stamp on it. If you don't believe me ask MPI, they will tell you the same thing, you don't need gauges on the base kit . Once you move up from the stock kit and start upgrading things gauges now make since. I'm not sure how guys have time to look at the gauges anyways, If I did that I would hit a tree.

 

[4StrokeAddict]

Great, think I'll go no gauge for now. As I said in other posts, I really want to keep my machine warranty friendly. Although I really like the sound of the Evo flash, I shy away from it for this reason. If Yamaha releases a flash that fixes things, than I will be perfectly happy. If not, I'm going aftermarket. I have read mixed posts on the Power Commander which is why I'm asking questions. Are folks seeing it help with their start and idle issues?

 

[MrSled]

I had a first generation MPI kit and happy as hell that I put gauges on it or I would have never known what the waste gate was set wrong from MPI as well as the AFR numbers on and off boost .. it allowed me to be able to adjust the gems correctly. I am sure the low boost system are fine but for me I would want to know if its actaully hitting the numbers it should high or low.

 

[suburban]

In theory a Power Commander with Ignition Module should be able to do anything the Evo flash does and more since you can also have stutter and adjust. Problem can occur because the PC is intercepting the stock ECU signals. This can throw codes or just plain miss the signals so to speak. I have never had a problem with PC but have seen them.

power commander does not intercept the stock ecu, it is only changing injector on/off time as per the map in it. and as some have said the ignition modules, some work, some don't ( not sure why, i have 2 that work fine) with regards to rev extend.

 

[cannondale27]

power commander does not intercept the stock ecu, it is only changing injector on/off time as per the map in it. and as some have said the ignition modules, some work, some don't ( not sure why, i have 2 that work fine) with regards to rev extend.

Thats what I said.

 

[suburban]

Thats what I said.

lol......yeah, i agree.

 

[yamahaguy]

I had a first generation MPI kit and happy as hell that I put gauges on it or I would have never known what the waste gate was set wrong from MPI as well as the AFR numbers on and off boost .. it allowed me to be able to adjust the gems correctly. I am sure the low boost system are fine but for me I would want to know if its actaully hitting the numbers it should high or low.

Just curious but was yours with our without EABC ? I know without EABC the waste gate adjustment has pretty tight tolerance and a lot more wiggle room if you have EABC .

 

[MrSled]

Just curious but was yours with our without EABC ? I know without EABC the waste gate adjustment has pretty tight tolerance and a lot more wiggle room if you have EABC .

It did not but that still doesn't give me a warm fuzzy to know just because it has that EABC that its working correctly. This is just my opinion.. you guys do what you want but I have had enough boosted machines that I have to know what I am getting out of the sled. Therefore all of my installs will have gauges.

Think if it this way, some cars have a temp light and some have a gauge... you decide what you want to see.

 

[machzrobbie]

You don't need gauges for the Yamaha MPI turbo kit. With the low boost numbers and they way its engineered its more then safe. I would be more worried about the rest of the sled falling apart before worrying about the a motor with the base kit. If it was not safe Yamaha would not have put there stamp on it. If you don't believe me ask MPI, they will tell you the same thing, you don't need gauges on the base kit . Once you move up from the stock kit and start upgrading things gauges now make since. I'm not sure how guys have time to look at the gauges anyways, If I did that I would hit a tree.

I don't agree with this at all - all turbo kits should have gauges and education on what they should read - more motors have been hurt because of this then anything!! Ask me - I've fixed them - gauges are way cheaper then a motor.

 

[4StrokeAddict]

So it sounds like you will get more out of the flash than an ignition module and power commander...

What do safe AFR numbers look like?

I really like the look of the PC-V/Pod-3 setup. I also like the look of the Koso gauge but question the reliability based on other threads here. Are there any other options along these lines? I like the idea of a user adjustable controller/gauge in one with nice big numbers that are user defined. The prologer also looks like a decent option.

 

[cannondale27]

So it sounds like you will get more out of the flash than an ignition module and power commander...

What do safe AFR numbers look like?

I really like the look of the PC-V/Pod-3 setup. I also like the look of the Koso gauge but question the reliability based on other threads here. Are there any other options along these lines? I like the idea of a user adjustable controller/gauge in one with nice big numbers that are user defined. The prologer also looks like a decent option.

I don't believe anyone said that. It would all depend on the tune and person doing the tuning. It's entirely possible that with tuner you could get more than flash because no two sleds are the same and you could go as far as you want. Like said though especially with turbo the PC can fail or cause issues.

 

[NOS-PRO]

Will the EVO flash help with your kick-backs and lean pop? Yes

Would you be able to fix kick-backs and lean pop with a fuel controller? Yes

Like Cannondale mentioned, you could change timing and fuel to your liking on your own with the fuel controller and module....plus raise your rev limiter and have the 2-step. But this compared to the EVO flash...it's about dollars and how much you want to spend. You should be able to do everything the EVO flash does if you have everything. But, what needs changing and how much? Plus the EVO has the raised rev limiter also up to 9,800.

The EVO flash is safe with their AFR's but would recommend something to watch AFR's. But then again, Yamahaguys run theirs with no problems.

Most turbo guys don't go over 12.5 AFR's on boost

Me being naturally aspirated, I will have my fuel controller, module and pod to record all my data and have a 2-step stutter. This works with my EVO flash and if I want I can modify some areas thru my laptop. just my .02