Ya we could argue and debate all day. I am from Western New York State and as Apex noted, our trails are almost entirely on private property. As he knows from the sound of it, the two reasons we generally lose trails are pipes and off trail antics. And I'm not addressing one person here, I'm addressing the issue in general as we have this discussion every year in these parts and I'm kind of passionate about maintaining access to our trails because I LOVE to ride them!
I'd say again that our individual rights for many things end at our property line. People can can ride with whatever pipe they want on their land and there is no enforcement mechanism to issue tickets. When sled riders use someone else's land in NY, they become a guest of the local club and landowner, and are required to follow certain laws, as well as guidelines (Stay On Trail Or Stay Home, Stay Right, Etc) to hold up our (the club's) end of the bargain for use of the property. We have lots of trail regulations in NYS: speed limit 55, registraion, insurance requirements. Exhaust regulations are just one of those many laws.
Anyway, if riders don't like the rules about pipes, they are free to find a place to ride that allows them, which is exercising individual rights in an appropriate way. The fact is, riders don't have a right to use a pipe on somoeone else's property, and if they choose to, they're not living up to their end of the bargain when it comes to trail use. If knowing all this, guys choose to have a pipe anyway, I don't see why they get pissed when a ticket is issued.
Anyway, at least we are talking about the issue and our trail system. Getting guys to switch back to the stock exhaust is more about education than big brother IMO. Most people find out that landowners are getting upset and police themselves for the good of the trails they ride, for the good of everyone else out there that uses trails too, and most importantly out of respect for the landowner. Unfortunately, some guys (maybe 1%) aren't going to follow the rules until they get a ticket. In those cases, no one wins.
I'd say again that our individual rights for many things end at our property line. People can can ride with whatever pipe they want on their land and there is no enforcement mechanism to issue tickets. When sled riders use someone else's land in NY, they become a guest of the local club and landowner, and are required to follow certain laws, as well as guidelines (Stay On Trail Or Stay Home, Stay Right, Etc) to hold up our (the club's) end of the bargain for use of the property. We have lots of trail regulations in NYS: speed limit 55, registraion, insurance requirements. Exhaust regulations are just one of those many laws.
Anyway, if riders don't like the rules about pipes, they are free to find a place to ride that allows them, which is exercising individual rights in an appropriate way. The fact is, riders don't have a right to use a pipe on somoeone else's property, and if they choose to, they're not living up to their end of the bargain when it comes to trail use. If knowing all this, guys choose to have a pipe anyway, I don't see why they get pissed when a ticket is issued.
Anyway, at least we are talking about the issue and our trail system. Getting guys to switch back to the stock exhaust is more about education than big brother IMO. Most people find out that landowners are getting upset and police themselves for the good of the trails they ride, for the good of everyone else out there that uses trails too, and most importantly out of respect for the landowner. Unfortunately, some guys (maybe 1%) aren't going to follow the rules until they get a ticket. In those cases, no one wins.
zeke66
Expert
Last season I had the Ultra Q on my Nytro. I was very careful when I was around houses or in towns ( I too do all my riding in NY ). Was even stopped by a state trooper doing registration checks but, he didn't say anything about the muffler. If your considerate when you have a pipe it's ok by me. It's the idiots that hammer it by peoples homes etc.
I will say, this year I switched back to the 50 pound stocker. I was always uneasy in NY wondering when I was going to get that ticket even though I kept it under control around populated areas. That and the fact that, after @150-200 miles, the drone started to give me a headache.
I will say, this year I switched back to the 50 pound stocker. I was always uneasy in NY wondering when I was going to get that ticket even though I kept it under control around populated areas. That and the fact that, after @150-200 miles, the drone started to give me a headache.
WNYPAT ,Please fill in your profile location as it is a site requirement and you have been told before.
arteeex
TY 4 Stroke Master
How about just making a MP3 recording of a loud exhaust and running that thru ear buds inside your helmet? You get to listen to that sweet exhaust tone as loud as you want and not bother anybody. You could even record and listen to tracks for a piped 2-stroke, a turbo'd Apex or Jimmy Johnson's #48 when you're feeling particularly racy.
Clearly a win-win. And the trails will stay open for the rest of us.
Clearly a win-win. And the trails will stay open for the rest of us.
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The only problem I have with the law in Ontario is that it says you can't vary from stock. Well my buddy's stock sled is louder then my stock sled and my sled is louder then my fathers stock sled.
Why should my father not be aloud to put on an aftermarket exhaust for his sled to gain performance and is around the same volume as my sled?
I understand that noise can cause problems with landowners. I have 2 trails within a 15 minute ride that passes in the landowners drive way and is 20 feet from their living room. I have never seen a rider show any disrespect while riding through those sections.
Around here there are more owners threatening to shut down trails because of riders going off the groomed section and tearing up the fields.
I agree there should be a level that motorized vehicles should adhere too, they should not have to keep it stock though.
Why should my father not be aloud to put on an aftermarket exhaust for his sled to gain performance and is around the same volume as my sled?
I understand that noise can cause problems with landowners. I have 2 trails within a 15 minute ride that passes in the landowners drive way and is 20 feet from their living room. I have never seen a rider show any disrespect while riding through those sections.
Around here there are more owners threatening to shut down trails because of riders going off the groomed section and tearing up the fields.
I agree there should be a level that motorized vehicles should adhere too, they should not have to keep it stock though.
dilligaf
Pro
arteeex said:
I like it!!
The few people with pipes that have to blip the throttle constantly when driving up to the pump or anywhere public need to have some self control. Not sure what they're trying to prove, but its not helping us out at all.
zeke66
Expert
I honestly would love a stock sounding exhaust that just didn't weigh as much as a tank.
mach9
TY 4 Stroke Master
Daranello said:
Good luck finding a certification stamp with all the tunnel enclosures.
Mine is sealed up tight.
Beenba
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I have a feeling this thread is going to keep going for awhile 
When it comes down to it, the law is the law, and were not going to be changing it anytime soon. If anything it's going to get worse and more strict/enforced when more 4 strokes come to the market in years to come.
I think the majority of cops/enforcers are looking for the assholes flying by (or up to their checkpoint) revving the hell out of their sled, thinking they are unstoppable. If you drive up normally, with little gas, and show some respect to the authority, no problems. And if you treat residential/private land the same way...no problems.
When it comes down to it, the law is the law, and were not going to be changing it anytime soon. If anything it's going to get worse and more strict/enforced when more 4 strokes come to the market in years to come.
I think the majority of cops/enforcers are looking for the assholes flying by (or up to their checkpoint) revving the hell out of their sled, thinking they are unstoppable. If you drive up normally, with little gas, and show some respect to the authority, no problems. And if you treat residential/private land the same way...no problems.
canoehead
TY 4 Stroke God
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Same, same!! I also agree with Beenba.mach9 said:
ruffryder
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
How much are you willing to pay for one?zeke66 said:
mach9 said:
I read his article and can't figure out how a man that's been in the snowmoblie industry as long as him doesn't understand the difference between a Harley with loud pipes on a public highway and a snowmobile with a loud can on land donated by someone.
I am not for obnoxiously loud exhausts on our trails, but I don't have any issues with aftermarket systems that are reasonable..hell I run one and have been testing them for 2 years. I also know how and where to control the sound of my sled...there is a time and place for everything...brapping around town and residential areas aren't the places. If you want to run an aftermarket exhaust, be respectful of where you ride.
revster
TY 4 Stroke God
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shaddow44 said:
Sounds about right to me.
mike3577
Expert
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- 09 nytro xtx, 8 inch slydog powederhounds, mbrp silencer, ulmer racing clutching, fast track studs,cr10ek sparkplugs,
i have a mbrp which is loud,but can keep it quite at the same time in towns and close to homes.
I think it's bs you can modify or alter the stock exhaust in any way in WI.
There is a performance shop for cats that came out with a muffler that is quiter then stock and freer flowing and another one that is the same decibales pretty much but a half decibale more at wide open throttle.
I had a r1 stock pipe on my apex and it was not any louder but about 20lbs less weight.
There is a performance shop for cats that came out with a muffler that is quiter then stock and freer flowing and another one that is the same decibales pretty much but a half decibale more at wide open throttle.
I had a r1 stock pipe on my apex and it was not any louder but about 20lbs less weight.
