Making chips, machining the primary & secondary myself

[TD Max]

Its just as easy to mail the clutches in unless you have the Mill and Lathe at your finger tips.... and if you are any kind of machinist you should be able to look at your clutches along with a few other posts that are on the site and be able to figure this out.

Then there's always the balancing after the mods. I sent mine to Ulmer for the full monte

 

[VIPER85]

Fo guys like myself that do not fully understand cluthing like many of you do. Can some one explain what machining the clutches does and what you can expect to see from having this done. Also can any vendors on here give a rough idea of what this cost to have done.

I have a bone stock 14' XTX with stock clutching and im wondering if this is something I might want to have done or if I should start elsewhere first. Im not sure if this is the proper place for this post or if it should be started as a new topic. I have to imagine there are others with the same questions.

 

[wavemaster]

Your riding style will dictate the setup, your budget will decide what can be obtained.

You can't go wrong with http://www.ulmerracing.com/ for a trouble free setup.

 

[cannondale27]

In my opinion the only machining needed is if you have a Turbo or big engine mods. Stock clutches with no machining are capable of 105 mph speedo. Not consistently but if they do it once it proves there is no need to machine for anything. The capability is there already just need to have the right tune clutch and power wise to get there. Now if you need to go faster than that maybe machining is needed. Hard to believe though since 98 srx with no machining did 120 mph on radar more than once. Have seen Apex's do that also. Ulmer made a post with the theoretical speeds which seems to be very accurate. You need to ask yourself if you bought a Viper for top end. I surely did not. I would buy a Apex for that. But 100-110mph is enough for sure.

 

[titanrcr]

In my opinion the only machining needed is if you have a Turbo or big engine mods. Stock clutches with no machining are capable of 105 mph speedo. Not consistently but if they do it once it proves there is no need to machine for anything. The capability is there already just need to have the right tune clutch and power wise to get there. Now if you need to go faster than that maybe machining is needed. Hard to believe though since 98 srx with no machining did 120 mph on radar more than once. Have seen Apex's do that also. Ulmer made a post with the theoretical speeds which seems to be very accurate. You need to ask yourself if you bought a Viper for top end. I surely did not. I would buy a Apex for that. But 100-110mph is enough for sure.

Good point, without a turbo there's nothing to be gained from O/D machining. Still sounds like a bone stocker would need the secondary to be addressed in some way. Either cut the spring pocket to prevent coil bind using the stock spring and belt, run a different spring that won't coil bind or setup the secondary to run the longer 8DN belt. And yes, my SRX will do 120 on the lake but it rides like a brick!

 

[TD Max]

Fo guys like myself that do not fully understand cluthing like many of you do. Can some one explain what machining the clutches does and what you can expect to see from having this done. Also can any vendors on here give a rough idea of what this cost to have done.

I have a bone stock 14' XTX with stock clutching and im wondering if this is something I might want to have done or if I should start elsewhere first. Im not sure if this is the proper place for this post or if it should be started as a new topic. I have to imagine there are others with the same questions.

If you do the 8DN belt mod you will more than likely have no adjustment left for belt deflection. Additionally, there is a coil bind issue that affects the shift out at upper speeds. This is where machining the secondary comes in.

The primary does not achieve full shift out to OD due to mechanical limits of the sheaves. Most machines do not have the HP to run the stock primary to it's limits, but turbo machines do.

In my case I am planning to drop a couple teeth on the upper chain sprocket. I had both clutches machines as well. I don't know that I would hit the limit on the stock clutch, but it's nice to know that it can if necessary, plus if I decide to do a turbo it's already done.

Ulmer Racing has a nice listing outlining approximately how fast you can expect to go with various setups given the proper conditions.

 

[stingray719]

If you do the 8DN belt mod you will more than likely have no adjustment left for belt deflection. Additionally, there is a coil bind issue that affects the shift out at upper speeds. This is where machining the secondary comes in.

The primary does not achieve full shift out to OD due to mechanical limits of the sheaves. Most machines do not have the HP to run the stock primary to it's limits, but turbo machines do.

In my case I am planning to drop a couple teeth on the upper chain sprocket. I had both clutches machines as well. I don't know that I would hit the limit on the stock clutch, but it's nice to know that it can if necessary, plus if I decide to do a turbo it's already done.

Ulmer Racing has a nice listing outlining approximately how fast you can expect to go with various setups given the proper conditions.

"If you do the 8DN belt mod you will more than likely have no adjustment left for belt deflection" I have not had this happen on our two Vipers, curious who has had this happen on a healthy 8DN belt?

 

[TD Max]

I think a more appropriate question would be how many just took their deflection screws out altogether and/or had to run 3 shims under the screw making it pointless to run?

Then ask these same folks if their track will creep or lurch ever so slightly when up on a track stand and idling?

 

[NOS-PRO]

I think a more appropriate question would be how many just took their deflection screws out altogether and/or had to run 3 shims under the screw making it pointless to run?

Then ask these same folks if their track will creep or lurch ever so slightly when up on a track stand and idling?

(this is how I had it before I machined my secondary)
Had 2 washers on each of the 8mm bolts in the back of the secondary. Belt was just above the secondary sheaves, belt tension looked correct and track did not move when on the stand. This was with a belt that measured 1.372"

 

[stingray719]

I think a more appropriate question would be how many just took their deflection screws out altogether and/or had to run 3 shims under the screw making it pointless to run?

Then ask these same folks if their track will creep or lurch ever so slightly when up on a track stand and idling?

Ok fair enough, please name those folks and lets see if it was a one off problem or an issue. I would like to know if we really do have an issue or an isolated incident.

 

[sxr70001]

I have the equivalent of 2 washers and my track will roll when the sled is on the stand. However, using the deflection method my track is at the outer limit of being in spec. I don't really care though, if it gets loose I will just throw a new belt on.

Ultimately, I am patiently waiting for you early adopters to find a good aftermarket belt that doesn't create a ton of dust like the stock one does and then I will probably switch back to the proper length.

Have I told you how great you are lately, Totally Yamaha guys?

 

[NOS-PRO]

Have I told you how great you are lately, Totally Yamaha guys?

Nope, not today

LOL....

Trying a gates Carbon Fiber belt....it's on the sled now waiting for snow.

 

[Studroes144]

I've got 40 miles on the gates carbon belt so far. I bought the proper length viper specific belt, it was a bit tight when I first put it on but after prolly 5 miles it loosened up some and not sits just a bit above the secondary, maybe not quite as much as recommended but it's close enough that if I was to shim it it'd be too tight. So far not a spec of dust and I've been the snot out of it so far, it grips awesome and once it gets warmed up you can feel the rubber itself is very grippy, much more so than the 8jp belt.

 

[sxr70001]

See I knew you were all over it.

You're the greatest! That goes for all you guys who try to help out others.

I really don't understand those who say " I have the best solution, but I'm not going to tell anyone". We all get better when we help each other out. Isn't that the point of the forum?

Before I get flamed, I'm not talking about vendors. They have products to sell and that's how they make a living.

From my own point of view I will probably end up sending my clutches off next summer to get worked on, but last year I bought a new sled, this year I just put another couple thousand dollars of mods on and I have only so much to spend with 2 kids still in college. So unlike some I have to slow down the process.

 

[Studroes144]

As long as the gates belt holds up it'll be a good belt. I went with the carbon belt because of the higher hp with the turbo, they cost around the same price as an 8jp. The cheaper gates belt can be had for the same price as an 8dn so it's nice you have a couple options. The carbon belt is used heavily on the cat 1100 turbo for the fact that it's strong and grips very well. For the record I put 2300 miles on last year, I have a clutch kit, and my clutches showed zero signs of coil binding. Now with the turbo and the power to push the clutches there are some signs showing up where the spring in the secondary may be binding. I have 3 washers ready to go to shim the helix, next time I get out I'll try for some speed runs then add the shims and see if there is a difference. My point being, on a stock or slightly modified sled I don't see the coil bind being an issue as long as you have a good clutch kit/setup