My Simons CPR Attak on dyno, WOW

[Jamie Gelting]

ot trying to be difficult but did not the CPR turbos experience cracked header problems??? I also was lead to believe that most of the hardware supplied to these kits was inferior so if as you say the right person installed it most of that hardware would be upgraded but that is rarely if ever stated. And there will never be any denying the fact that these same turbos had extensive under the hood heat problems and the need for a numbe rof gauges and gadgets to have the complete kit.

To me everyone does not tell it all when selling anything that is the way of the world what is agravating is making it sound as if just bolt it on and go and everything is good. Not a bash just venting after many season of big bore efi tried tested big bore kits being anything but nad it just sounds all to familar.

ptm[/quote]

Though I would jump in, hope you dont mind. There are stages to the kit as far as I understand. 1st= turbo kit which includes turbo and everything to put turbo intercooler etc. on. 2nd= You would then either supply your own fuel controller or purchase one from CPR. 3rd =Either buy his base clutch kit or start from scratch and formulate your own. 4th= Buy his gauge pod and gauges which includes o2, boost and temp. Or do your own like Mike did.
So basically you choose how much you want to do yourself or bolt on as per his specs.
I believe his header tube thickness as increased since the first RX-1 kits. As far as hardware alot of it is grade 5 with some electrical connectors which you can choose to use or upgrade (not expensive) the header uses the original oem Yamaha bolts. This is a serious kit with some potential serious power options and should be treated as such. Things should be monitored and up keep maintained to assure no problems just as any performance upgrade.

Hope this helps, Jamie

 

[DoktorC]

And there will never be any denying the fact that these same turbos had extensive under the hood heat problems and the need for a numbe rof gauges and gadgets to have the complete kit.

To me everyone does not tell it all when selling anything that is the way of the world what is agravating is making it sound as if just bolt it on and go and everything is good. Not a bash just venting after many season of big bore efi tried tested big bore kits being anything but nad it just sounds all to familar.

ptm

You seem to post the same thing over and over and over again. If you don't want to tune or get your hands dirty this isn't the mod for you....it's simple. This is a major mod that takes some tuning and related gauges ("and gadgets")...if you can't deal with that this isn't the mod for you. I don't think there is a big conspiricy by the turbo guys trying to decieve you........turbos make big power in everything (from trucks to sleds) but you gotta pay attention to them.

 

[lakercr]

Few years back and everyone had leaking T's on the carb float bowl vent lines on the RX-1's. Notably, the Bender rear mount was very susceptible to that as they just crazy glued them. All depends on who installed them. I never had issues with the CPR kits for the RX-1. EFI's don't have float bowls. Still need to be aware of controllers not working or being set wrong though. I know one thing, I sure miss my turbo sled now that we have had snow for a week. I did get 600 miles on my stock ATTAK GT in the mean time however. I sure like boost !!!!!!!

Not trying to be difficult but did not the CPR turbos experience cracked header problems??? I also was lead to believe that most of the hardware supplied to these kits was inferior so if as you say the right person installed it most of that hardware would be upgraded but that is rarely if ever stated. And there will never be any denying the fact that these same turbos had extensive under the hood heat problems and the need for a numbe rof gauges and gadgets to have the complete kit.

To me everyone does not tell it all when selling anything that is the way of the world what is agravating is making it sound as if just bolt it on and go and everything is good. Not a bash just venting after many season of big bore efi tried tested big bore kits being anything but nad it just sounds all to familar.

ptm

OKay, I've been watching this thread for a while now. Time to add some of my own observations.

First, the cracked headers. There certainly was an issue with both Dave and Jeff's first generation headers. I know this because I have, on average, 3-4 PAGES a week of PM's from people on the site with a variety of turbo issues. Cracked headers used to come up quite a bit, but it's getting better. I know that both kits have made a number of changes to their design to addrerss the issue, and it seems to be working.

Inferior Hardware? Could you be specific please? I can't tell from how you worded your comment - are you referring to all turbo kits, or just the CPR? Either way, I know that both kits a few years ago were shipped with mild steel fasteners, I believe both ship with stainless now.

Under hood heat issues. I've read posts from a few different members now that have stated there is NO issue with under hood heat issues on the CPR kit (Apex) for flatlanders. Dave takes a different approach to managing the heat on kits for the flatlanders, and I agree it sounds like there may be some challenges there. Perhaps someone that owns one could comment on the specifics...

A number of gauges and gadgets? You NEED a boost gauge and a wideband O2 with a sensor suited to the fuel you will run. Water temp is a nice to have, but not essential. These aren't gadgets. If you're referrring to BOV's and boost controllers, both will help you get more out of your investment, but aren't absolutely essential.

I don't doubt for a second that Jeff's kit will deliver exactly what he claims. That said, there really is no such thing as bolt on and go. I say that because people have a tendancy to not leave things alone. The first few times riding your new turbo you will be blown away, and won't be able to imagine ever needing any more power that you have. That lasts about three weeks. Then you hear, read, or see someone with the same kit running higher boost, a different controller, BOV, pistons, fuel, whatever and the instinct to dick with it kicks in. This is where the 'gadgets' and extra gauges come into play.

When it comes to boosted 4 strokes, there is a wealth of information on this site, and a number of people that can help you get the most out of your kit. You're still going to have to get your hands dirty once in a while. If that doesn't sound like you, then just accept that you'll never be the fastest sled on the lake and you can get on with your day.

These kits aren't perfect, and they never will be.

 

[puddytatman]

And there will never be any denying the fact that these same turbos had extensive under the hood heat problems and the need for a numbe rof gauges and gadgets to have the complete kit.

To me everyone does not tell it all when selling anything that is the way of the world what is agravating is making it sound as if just bolt it on and go and everything is good. Not a bash just venting after many season of big bore efi tried tested big bore kits being anything but nad it just sounds all to familar.

ptm

You seem to post the same thing over and over and over again. If you don't want to tune or get your hands dirty this isn't the mod for you....it's simple. This is a major mod that takes some tuning and related gauges ("and gadgets")...if you can't deal with that this isn't the mod for you. I don't think there is a big conspiricy by the turbo guys trying to decieve you........turbos make big power in everything (from trucks to sleds) but you gotta pay attention to them.

Why is this a problem with you? Where have I said I dont want to get my hands dirty??? I am just tiried of promoters promoting that everything is good and bolt it on and away you go. I am not saying this is the case now but dont insult your own intelligence by saying it has not been that way. How many guys have had to purchase this and that and everything else just to make it work the way it was advertised and have the reliabiltiy. If I am to spend th emoney you have to on this kit I wnat to make sure. I have done a lot of research over many years on this and I just dont want to make a huge mistake. Is that okay with you???

BTW how is that Bender turbo working for you??? Has everything worked out just right or was there complications and more to do than you thought.......... I thought so.............

ptm

 

[BlueByYou2000]

Guys, please keep this to a good constructive arguement. Keep the emotions out of it!!!

 

[puddytatman]

Few years back and everyone had leaking T's on the carb float bowl vent lines on the RX-1's. Notably, the Bender rear mount was very susceptible to that as they just crazy glued them. All depends on who installed them. I never had issues with the CPR kits for the RX-1. EFI's don't have float bowls. Still need to be aware of controllers not working or being set wrong though. I know one thing, I sure miss my turbo sled now that we have had snow for a week. I did get 600 miles on my stock ATTAK GT in the mean time however. I sure like boost !!!!!!!

Not trying to be difficult but did not the CPR turbos experience cracked header problems??? I also was lead to believe that most of the hardware supplied to these kits was inferior so if as you say the right person installed it most of that hardware would be upgraded but that is rarely if ever stated. And there will never be any denying the fact that these same turbos had extensive under the hood heat problems and the need for a numbe rof gauges and gadgets to have the complete kit.

To me everyone does not tell it all when selling anything that is the way of the world what is agravating is making it sound as if just bolt it on and go and everything is good. Not a bash just venting after many season of big bore efi tried tested big bore kits being anything but nad it just sounds all to familar.

ptm

OKay, I've been watching this thread for a while now. Time to add some of my own observations.

First, the cracked headers. There certainly was an issue with both Dave and Jeff's first generation headers. I know this because I have, on average, 3-4 PAGES a week of PM's from people on the site with a variety of turbo issues. Cracked headers used to come up quite a bit, but it's getting better. I know that both kits have made a number of changes to their design to addrerss the issue, and it seems to be working.

Inferior Hardware? Could you be specific please? I can't tell from how you worded your comment - are you referring to all turbo kits, or just the CPR? Either way, I know that both kits a few years ago were shipped with mild steel fasteners, I believe both ship with stainless now.

Under hood heat issues. I've read posts from a few different members now that have stated there is NO issue with under hood heat issues on the CPR kit (Apex) for flatlanders. Dave takes a different approach to managing the heat on kits for the flatlanders, and I agree it sounds like there may be some challenges there. Perhaps someone that owns one could comment on the specifics...

A number of gauges and gadgets? You NEED a boost gauge and a wideband O2 with a sensor suited to the fuel you will run. Water temp is a nice to have, but not essential. These aren't gadgets. If you're referrring to BOV's and boost controllers, both will help you get more out of your investment, but aren't absolutely essential.

I don't doubt for a second that Jeff's kit will deliver exactly what he claims. That said, there really is no such thing as bolt on and go. I say that because people have a tendancy to not leave things alone. The first few times riding your new turbo you will be blown away, and won't be able to imagine ever needing any more power that you have. That lasts about three weeks. Then you hear, read, or see someone with the same kit running higher boost, a different controller, BOV, pistons, fuel, whatever and the instinct to dick with it kicks in. This is where the 'gadgets' and extra gauges come into play.

When it comes to boosted 4 strokes, there is a wealth of information on this site, and a number of people that can help you get the most out of your kit. You're still going to have to get your hands dirty once in a while. If that doesn't sound like you, then just accept that you'll never be the fastest sled on the lake and you can get on with your day.

These kits aren't perfect, and they never will be.

I thank you for your reply. For once it was genuine to the point and factual. As I pointed out I have been bittne mroe than once on the 2 stroke big bore efi's and see all the cheerleading going on those web sites from supporters and racers I maybe am unfairly lumping everyone into that bandwagon. The internet is a powerful place to sell and the mroe cheerleaders the more you will sell. If you are going to invest the kind of money into something and you have seen, read, experienced something different you ask comment and state and see what the response is.

As you say there are many on this forum with lots to offer and I am just trying to gather as much information as I can. I am not denying the new kit will deliver but history so far is not on that side. As we all know history changes so asking these questions gives me the information I need to decide.

Thanks to everyone.

ptm

 

[DoktorC]

Why is this a problem with you? Where have I said I dont want to get my hands dirty??? I am just tiried of promoters promoting that everything is good and bolt it on and away you go. I am not saying this is the case now but dont insult your own intelligence by saying it has not been that way. How many guys have had to purchase this and that and everything else just to make it work the way it was advertised and have the reliabiltiy. If I am to spend th emoney you have to on this kit I wnat to make sure. I have done a lot of research over many years on this and I just dont want to make a huge mistake. Is that okay with you???

BTW how is that Bender turbo working for you??? Has everything worked out just right or was there complications and more to do than you thought.......... I thought so.............

ptm

I totally understand not wanting to make a huge mistake, it's a big purchase. It just seems like most of your "issues" have been covered over and over again. My point was that these guys aren't out to stick it to you...and your posts seem to have that edge to them..like all the turbo guys got together to get their story straight. I think the advantages, disadvantages, and possible pitfalls are VERY well documented here (on the site) so with alittle research there shouldn't be anything unexpected.

BTW...I don't have a Bender turbo..the only turbo I own is on my car....but, that being said I doubt the installation would be more then I expect. I know its a massive mod with massive rewards.

 

[TurboJamie]

Can't really beat the money back guarantee that Jeff offers don't know how much more cut and dried it can be then that.

 

[puddytatman]

doctorc thanks again. When you see the cheerleading on other sites about big bore efi's that you know are not what they say they are the confidence level on believing everything you read changes. When I read 600 miles and it is proven well I just dont buy it sorry to offend. I dont mean to ask time and time again it is just from those I personally know who own them over the years this is what I have come to know as factual.

Jamie I love the guaranty on HP that is for sure more than I need but will gladly take I just want to know everything I need to have a final cost.

ptm

 

[rxrider]

Turbo is not a hype $ for $ turbo or SC is what gives you the bang for your buck, going NA and making big power is expencive, a lot more $ than a turbo/SC and still short on power comparing to a trail turbo.

For all the turbos I have seen on the snow, ice and tar there were considerably more that did not work worth a chit than did and it was just that.... hype. Perhaps now the hype is not as much just talk but that could not be said a few years back.

ptm

???

 

[visegrip]

well i just went thru changing the plugs on this beast big job but i gotta give it to jeff no need to take the turbo off to change the 4th plug but hey i am off riding and will give more feedback when snow is gone.

 

[KnappAttack]

JD, Sorry about the fouled plug. Ya, they are not easy to change even on the stockers. I should have warned you about letting it come up to operating temp when loading into the trailer or starting them for short periods while they are in the rich mode upon startup. Stock machine will do that too. 1 more thing, you need to let these turbos cool a bit before you shut them down, to allow them to cool so they don't overheat the oil. You may know that being you have that powerstroke diesel though. Mike

 

[skidoo]

Finished the install on my Apex Mountain. (Thanks Allen for the help!) 300 miles in the last 4 days without a glitch with the CPR kit. Didn't have to mess with the control box or anything, it was a complete bolt on kit. The only problem I had with the sled was, it was like riding a pogo stick on the hills before adjusting the suspension. Have a friend that rode my sled, he has a stage 2 supercharger running at 13 to 14lbs of boost and said that he didn't think his sled would hang with mine at 8lbs, but his sled was out of commission and we couldn't compare them that day. Do you guys think I need a blow off valve for this kit? I have turbo flutter when letting off and don't know if it is hard on the turbo. Couldn't feel any turbo lag at all. A BIG THANKS to Jeff at Simons CPR!!!

 

[boostedapex]

jeff says that on low boost you dont need a blowoff valve

 

[Srxspec]

skidoo, great to hear you got it running! Glad I could help you out!