OW40 oil

[ClutchMaster]

Hey I knew you were out there soaking up the sun reading TY!!
Oil debate has your phalanges moving!
Thought maybe you sprained your wrist mowing the lawn or something?

AHhhh the summertime oil threads, refresh’s fond memories of getting stuck in quicksand and getting my nuts snagged on a piece of sharp metal at work and having to go see the nurse.

Seriously tho the biggest factor in choosing an oil will always be viscosity. 90% of all engine wear occurs on cold start up, if the oil doesn’t flow well it can’t protect your engine. You could run the highest film strength oil in the world if it’s not flowing quickly to your engine parts it won’t matter. That’s why bigtime racers heat their oil before starting.

Zinc and phosphorus in most additive packages will reduce the film strength of the oil.
The object of these additives is that if the metal parts start to touch they sacrifice themselves and are wiped out while the metal parts remain undamaged.

Please don’t get mad at me KA but if your ruining flat tappet cams it’s usually either improper break-in procedure or the cam or lifters were not properly manufactured.

An old friend of mine had a way to check the convex of brand new lifters. He started doing it because he had failures with only specific brands of lifters, I will say many are far from being consistent. The surface finishes need to be scrutinized also, if they are too rough you’ll have issues. Every time Dave failed a cam after a new install he meticulously inspected everything. I will say “most of the time”he found something going on with the components.

Obviously oil change intervals are HUGE especially with these boosted machines on crack. This is probably where most need to focus their efforts.

Glad your back online KA

Cheers, CM

 

[KnappAttack]

Ya I’ve been away and busy for a while. Not much thought about sleds going on for me. Cars, bikes (motorcycles, not bikes with human power!), side by sides and summer projects. it’s going too fast and still summer stuff to do too! I’m not yet close to ready for fall or winter but know it’s around the corner.

 

[JayM]

I just buy the Full Synthetic Yamalube 0W40 :O maybe I am crazy, not sure, I do remove the oil lines as well and drain those and always change filter. Seems to work and I will feel very good when it's time to sell her.

 

[Turboflash]

There is some outdated stuff posted above from Rat540. Some of those oils are not available anymore like the good Penzzoil Ultra SM with those high ratings, others like 0-40 M1 has been reformulated and has one of the best wear ratings for off the shelf oil. Can read the latest listings here from Rat540. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

I'll be mixing 0-40M1 and Quaker State 0-20 to get a 0-30 with the highest rated film strength for a 0-30 weight oil for the Winder. I've wiped cams before and thought high zinc was supposed to be good for high pressures and flat tappets, low and behold its not true at all and the reason I was wiping cam lobes as have others when using high zinc oils. I believe Rat540 has found the key to what really works for oil testing and keeping lobes on cams! I'll be using the highest rated real off the shelf oils from his testing moving forward. Noticed that some of the most expensive and trick "race" oils actually perform the worst in his testing which I have also seen some extremely poor oil samples on in vehicles as well.

Amsoil makes a 0W-30 Signature Series Full Syn. Rat 540 didn't test that specific one but below are two close relatives from Amsoil that he rates as "fantastic" wear resistance. I would think the 0W-30 would be very close to these two.

0W20 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,840 psi
5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,352 psi

 

[Hammer70]

I just buy the Full Synthetic Yamalube 0W40 :O maybe I am crazy, not sure, I do remove the oil lines as well and drain those and always change filter. Seems to work and I will feel very good when it's time to sell her.

X2

 

[ClutchMaster]

Amsoil is getting to be some fantastic stuff these days, ya know with their new testing/manufacturing facility and all.
They have something to prove and are doing just that.

 

[stevewithOCD]

AMSOIL claims they are the "original" synthetic oil makers.
In 1972 Al Amatuzio made the first synthetic oil to meet API standards.
He's now in the Lubricants Hall of Fame!

Who knew there was a Lubricant Hall of Fame!

 

[yamadoo]

Yes it’s the super cold start ups that always make me think, how long until I’m really lubed, 2k Rpms x “?” Minutes is a lot of metal on metal.
One reason I love my heated garage when we ride the north shore here in Mn.

 

[JPS]

Hey I knew you were out there soaking up the sun reading TY!!
Oil debate has your phalanges moving!
Thought maybe you sprained your wrist mowing the lawn or something?

AHhhh the summertime oil threads, refresh’s fond memories of getting stuck in quicksand and getting my nuts snagged on a piece of sharp metal at work and having to go see the nurse.

Seriously tho the biggest factor in choosing an oil will always be viscosity. 90% of all engine wear occurs on cold start up, if the oil doesn’t flow well it can’t protect your engine. You could run the highest film strength oil in the world if it’s not flowing quickly to your engine parts it won’t matter. That’s why bigtime racers heat their oil before starting.

Zinc and phosphorus in most additive packages will reduce the film strength of the oil.
The object of these additives is that if the metal parts start to touch they sacrifice themselves and are wiped out while the metal parts remain undamaged.

Please don’t get mad at me KA but if your ruining flat tappet cams it’s usually either improper break-in procedure or the cam or lifters were not properly manufactured.

An old friend of mine had a way to check the convex of brand new lifters. He started doing it because he had failures with only specific brands of lifters, I will say many are far from being consistent. The surface finishes need to be scrutinized also, if they are too rough you’ll have issues. Every time Dave failed a cam after a new install he meticulously inspected everything. I will say “most of the time”he found something going on with the components.

Obviously oil change intervals are HUGE especially with these boosted machines on crack. This is probably where most need to focus their efforts.

Glad your back online KA

Cheers, CM

I have had a few long time race engine builders say the same thing you are saying clutchmaster. I had a pair of N/A 540 engines for my boat dyno by Dean Nickerson at Nickerson Performance and when i asked about oil he said you can put anything in you like, there your engines so i rephrased the question and said what would you put in your engine then he told me valvoline VR1. He said a high performance race engine has to have the zinc he even suggested adding more zinc in an additive. that comes from 40 years and many championships of drag boats, drag cars and oval track cars. I know the snowmobiles are a bit of a different animal. i run synthetic amsoil in my sidewinder which is probably as good as many other oils for turbo 4s snowmobile but with cam and lifter wear in race engine more likely something up with components.

 

[SPM]

Yes it’s the super cold start ups that always make me think, how long until I’m really lubed, 2k Rpms x “?” Minutes is a lot of metal on metal.
One reason I love my heated garage when we ride the north shore here in Mn.

Amsoil is practically in your backyard.
After owning a engine shop for 25 years I've seen both Amsoil and VR1 do a great job in severe conditions.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Who knew there was a Lubricant Hall of Fame!

Dam and I thought it was the Swedes who invented pure synthetic Lube? Learn something new everyday!
Mmmmmm

 

[ApexXTX/Viper]

Amsoil makes a 0W-30 Signature Series Full Syn. Rat 540 didn't test that specific one but below are two close relatives from Amsoil that he rates as "fantastic" wear resistance. I would think the 0W-30 would be very close to these two.

0W20 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,840 psi
5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,352 psi

Does anyone have the wear ratings for Amsoil's 0W40 Powersports, Mystik's 0W40 and Yammi's 0W40 and 0W30 Semi-syn?

 

[ApexXTX/Viper]

Does anyone have the wear ratings for Amsoil's 0W40 Powersports, Mystik's 0W40 and Yammi's 0W40 and 0W30 Semi-syn?

Strange how we can get ratings for almost every oil sold in North America except the ones in the viscosities that Yamaha recommends?

 

[ClutchMaster]

http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20076.pdf

https://www.mobil.com/English-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-1-FS-0W40

No info on yamaha garbage oil but pretty good info on the other oils. I believe the Amsoi powersports oil contains higher levels of zinc and phosphorus but the spec sheet doesn’t show that.

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1713.pdf

Mobil 1 is designed for on road vehicles so it will have reduced amounts of zinc and phosphorus, but has the best viscosity index of the three. Mystic has the lowest VI.

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/0W40_MO_PROD_INFO.pdf

Redline has them all beat on the VI index.
You really can’t go wrong with any of these oils.

 

[cannondale27]

I have had a few long time race engine builders say the same thing you are saying clutchmaster. I had a pair of N/A 540 engines for my boat dyno by Dean Nickerson at Nickerson Performance and when i asked about oil he said you can put anything in you like, there your engines so i rephrased the question and said what would you put in your engine then he told me valvoline VR1. He said a high performance race engine has to have the zinc he even suggested adding more zinc in an additive. that comes from 40 years and many championships of drag boats, drag cars and oval track cars. I know the snowmobiles are a bit of a different animal. i run synthetic amsoil in my sidewinder which is probably as good as many other oils for turbo 4s snowmobile but with cam and lifter wear in race engine more likely something up with components.

Yes for sure. If you want to stop the cam and bucket wear with even subpar components. Use DLC coated buckets. They will stop the wear.