Petro-Can Ultra 94 - Information thread

[ROCKERDAN]

Im hoping we can get a thread going here on premium fuel in Ontario. In town here(Huntsville, Ont. In Muskoka region) There is one Petro-Can that carries their Ultra 94. Back in 2012 and 2013 I ran this in my cat sometimes, when I was radaring with the higher stages of Bens TD 4stage tune. It along with half bottle of lucas oct booster would allow me to have no knock light for my runs on stage 3(2000 to 2500 ft typically).

With much more talk of Ethanol from the 2s etec days on my mind. I searched it up, and see that this Ultra 94 DOES CONTAIN ETHANOL. And so it got me wondering if you guys who really push the envelope on boost, can chime in with your thoughts and experience.

I know here in Ontario, SHELL 91, Most Ultramar 91, Canadian tire 91, Esso 91 is ALL ETHANOL FREE for the most part, and says so on the pumps. Not so down at home in NY where all fuels locally back home have ethanol.

So my question is...does ethanol hurt the fuel for boost applications, sorta like how the etec just does not seem to like ethanol. Or is octane king? Is 94 with ethanol still gonna resist deto better than 91 without ethanol?

Also, in these Ultra cold temps....We have found Ethanol is actually a good thing, since yrs past before the advent of ethanol on pump fuels, we always had to add gas line anti-freeze to avoid a freeze up, which was basically an ethanol product. So now we dont get the freezing fuel lines as much, at least with the 87 octane which has 10% ethanol locally. And Ive been running 87 on my 12004tec doo for 2 seasons and being NA it did not care what I ran, never a freeze up.

I think this is always a good discussion to be had, and in the 2s forums especially with the etecs it seemed we would do anything we could to avoid ethanol. But wondered if this is as bad in turbo 4s.

And I think we all know that ethanol is not good for the rubber parts within the fuel system, so Id rather try to keep the discussion on the track of performance rather then summer storage issues.

Dan

 

[Beerman]

Great thread idea Dan.

I (not being a certified scientist or anything) don't see anything inherently bad with Ethanol and boost, much to the contrary. Octane is octane, and E85 (Summer blend at a true 85% ethanol) is 105 octane. A very good friend of mine owns a prominent speed shop in Detroit and most all his serious boosted street cars are now all E85 instead of race fuel (because it's so inexpensive and pretty easy to find in urban areas). So given that he and many, many others run E85 in high boost applications I can't imagine there's anything wrong with the ethanol itself.

I had dinner with him while here in MI for Christmas and was telling him about the stupidity of all our mods and the sled's weight:hp ratio and he asked why we weren't converting them to run E85. "Availability" (the lack of it on the trail) was my simple answer.

 

[XP123]

I did not know that much of the premium up there was ethanol free. It is important to know since I no longer add isopropyl to my fuel. I thought they all had ethanol.

I just bought about 60 gallons of 93 for 2.50 a gallon and it has 10 % ethanol.

 

[thor452]

I thought Ethanol was possibly good for boost my reason for this thought is from reading turbo builds where the have alcohol injection systems to prevent detonation. maybe one don't relate to the other octane is octane but my understanding is they burn at different temps (ethanol VS gas) I by no means am an expert on this just putting in my .02's worth of thoughts.

 

[XP123]

All the sled manufacturers design their engines to run on 10% ethanol so I would think as long as you have the right octane you should be fine.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Great posts guys.....the ethanol topic is big on 2s forums and always guys searching for ethanol free fuel. In much of Canada the premium is ethanol free. Difference in how the Govt here looks at overall contribution to climate change vs USA where we have far more population and vehicles. But also larger states like NY and Cali are pretty much ALL ethanol(10%) in everything while lesser populated states still have much ethanol free.

I know up here we all try to run premium for sure near end of season(even on the 4tec which runs 87 all the time) so the fuel that sits over the summer is non-ethanol and wont bother things sitting.

Good to hear this feedback. I had a feeling it was more a 2s etec thing then 4s turbo issue. So I may grab cans from Petro-Can of 94 when in town for the cans I keep here in the shop. Good to have here on my lake for radar days and running the bigger boost maps over 17psi or so.

Side bar: Anyone tell me if the Lucas(which I had good luck with on cat) is ok if its been sitting around(unopened/new) since 2013? LOL. I have 6 bottles leftover from the cat days and just wondered if it goes bad overtime. I realize the torco is better but just wondered about this stuff I had here.

Dan

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

And Ontario is about to up the ethanol content soon

 

[LouTurbo]

Also, when filling up in northern towns you may want to ask the gas station attendant when the premium tanks were last filled. Riding through Kapuskasing last year, the guy said April as few people buy premium up there.

 

[krm]

The problem i see here in NY with non ethanol fuel is how fast it goes stale .PWC guys like to use it and then they have issues ,.Also the places on the lakes that sell it end up selling it to the sledders then they hit the lake and Boom .The other thing when buying fuel is to look where the fill for the tanks are .If they'r on a down hill ,bet there's more water in the fuel .Remember ,Hydro lock is Hydro lock 2stk or 4stk .

 

[XP123]

I buy most of my fuel on the Indian Res. Back in the day people said don't buy there because the fuel is no good because of old tanks and pumps. That's not the case today. The res sells more fuel than any place else. They all have new pumps and new above ground tanks. Their fuel is always fresh because of all the volume and the trucks that fill their tanks are the same trucks that fill all the Kwik fill stations. The best part is I save about 60-70 cents a gallon.

 

[Doc Harley]

More ethanol is needed to increase octane rating. E85 etc. Guys could make more power with E85 than with typical 91. But specific mapping is required to achieve goals.

91 octane with 10% ethanol is the same as 91 octane without? Does 10% ethanol add value? Maybenot understanding the question.

 

[Doowithblue]

Yes octane booster has a shelf life. If it hasn't discoloured too badly and been stored in a garage and not a hot box trailer all summer you're good. I used to run a little amsoil fuel stabilizer in every tank of fuel and now they have had this quickshot (same as that startron stuff) that helps to prevent ethanol/water separation. To each his own. I believe gas stations' 91 doesn't sit as long as it used to now that most consumers finally realize that you get the extra cost back in fuel mileage in most vehicles.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Ethanol and boost are a great combo as long as your tune is set up to maintain the proper AFR. I can elaborate if you like?

 

[Never Satisfied]

At 10% I believe more octane is better. Keep in mind that 10% is displacing the gasoline so while it may have some cooling effect it also leans you out some. Dyno tech, New York based, does most of their pump gas testing on 10% ethanol so the numbers we see there show that data. Might be why he sees some fuel pump issues on the big boost 998 tunes, that 10% reduction might be why. Not an expert and lived through enough 2 stroke Pistons in my life to avoid ethanol when possible.

 

[Beerman]

More ethanol is needed to increase octane rating. E85 etc. Guys could make more power with E85 than with typical 91. But specific mapping is required to achieve goals.

91 octane with 10% ethanol is the same as 91 octane without? Does 10% ethanol add value? Maybenot understanding the question.

You'd likely need more than just the right maps to run E85, I don't remember the exact %, but you have to run a lot more E85 than gasoline since ethanol contains less energy than gasoline. When my buddy converts a car to E85, it starts with a larger pump and larger fuel line to push the required extra volume of fuel needed. Then obviously injectors, regulator, psi and the tune itself. Not all performance cars need a bigger fuel line, but Mustangs definitely do and I think Hellcats too. I WISH we could find reliably find E85 on the trails - even the crappy Winter blend is usually 95+ octane.