Plug change on Apex

[fourload]

MORE OCTANE=ONE JET SIZE=COLDER PLUG
If the colder plug increases hp in these motors then why does 87 octane fuel increase it also.There have been dynos(dynotech being one) that have reported a solid 2 hp increase with 87 octane fuel over 92 octane.The 87 octane fuel does the opposite thing that colder plugs do yet it still produces more power.....why?????

 

[87gtNOS]

fourload, I don't think one plug heat range is like 5 octane points.
What is happening is the one heat range colder is slowing down the burn (just ike higher octane does), but it achieves it by removing heat from the cylinder.

This is fact. This is how heat ranges on plugs work. There is no gain on the Apex from the dual electrode design of the CR10EK. Like I say, if you really wanted to run a colder plug, it would be preferable to use a CR10EB, if NGK made such a plug. Dual electrodes aren't made for our combustion chambers.

 

[fourload]

87gtNOS, Thanks for the explanation.Also do the cr10ek plugs have more of a projected tip than the stock ones.If they do wouldn't that change the timing of the spark in relation to the piston.

 

[87gtNOS]

87gtNOS, Thanks for the explanation.Also do the cr10ek plugs have more of a projected tip than the stock ones.If they do wouldn't that change the timing of the spark in relation to the piston.

naw, the tips are in the same spot basically.

as a side note, some plugs have projected noses, and that is another design to keep more heat in the chamber. Generally, the more recessed the nose, the colder the plug.

 

[novarossi]

Colder plug doesn't burn fuel as fast, same as more octane.

This is something I never understood. A spark is a spark, why would the fuel not ignight as fast with the colder plug? I thought colder plugs were to prevent detonation. I always knew( or thought I did) that higher compression needed more power to the plug to fire it, because the denser air charge has more resistance to electrical flow. I always came to the conclusion that as long as the plug fires, your charge will burn. I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this, and im not trying to be smart, but this is an issue that I just cant seem to get a strait answer on. Id like to understand better, thats all.

 

[87gtNOS]

Colder plug doesn't burn fuel as fast, same as more octane.

This is something I never understood. A spark is a spark, why would the fuel not ignight as fast with the colder plug? I thought colder plugs were to prevent detonation.

You answered your own question.

 

[Sled Dog]

Maybe the extra compression caused by the air displacement of the extra tip being on this plug is causing the extra hp. The heat ranges on plugs is just to keep it hot enough to burn the crap trying to stick to it so it stays clean by burning it off. That is the only reason heat ranges are built into spark plugs.

 

[87gtNOS]

Maybe the extra compression caused by the air displacement of the extra tip being on this plug is causing the extra hp. The heat ranges on plugs is just to keep it hot enough to burn the crap trying to stick to it so it stays clean by burning it off. That is the only reason heat ranges are built into spark plugs.

sleddog, you're kidding us right??? Did you read my posts on page 3? I explain there how heat ranges work.

 

[Sidewinder]

Maybe the extra compression caused by the air displacement of the extra tip being on this plug is causing the extra hp. The heat ranges on plugs is just to keep it hot enough to burn the crap trying to stick to it so it stays clean by burning it off. That is the only reason heat ranges are built into spark plugs.

sleddog, you're kidding us right??? Did you read my posts on page 3? I explain there how heat ranges work.

Dude Im glad to see you changed your avitar.
Looks much better.
Scott

 

[alaskanbowtie]

Over all verdict ?

So I'm getting there is a possibility of plug problems running the cr10ek plugs that Ulmer sells, and then it seems others are running them with the benefit and no problems ? So if I choose to run these plugs in my Mnt. Apex should I run higher octane fuel so I don't burn one of the electrodes off and have it bounce around the combustion chamber ? OR is this one of those things that happens about as often as winning the lottery and I really don't have to worry about unless running miles of wide open throttle ? realistically how many run them and have zero problems ? Has anyone ever had one burn an electrode off ?

 

[ReX]

I've been reading these forums carefully for 2 years and I've never seen or heard of a single problem running CR10EK plugs instead of stock plugs.

I don't know where 87gtNOS is getting his information on these plugs falling apart.

I ran them in my 05 RX-1 ER for thousands of miles and before I did I called NGK and escalated the call to their 3rd tier tech. I asked very specifically if there was any chance running CR10EK plugs could harm the 05 RX-1. I was told very clearly that there it is not possible for these plugs to harm the motor in any way and they are as safe to run as the stock plugs.

The only risk they said with the CR10EK's is there is a possibility that the plug itself may foul if it is too cool. I haven't heard of any cases of this happening, but just in case I ran stock plugs on all my long trips.

Correction there is a post where Bob Miller had a CR10EK foul...

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=26462

 

[87gtNOS]

87gtNOS sells tons of spark plugs a year and got his info from the Canadian NGK tech BOSS himself.....

put them in, if you are that desperate for 2hp....if any. 30 secs on a dyno isn't the same as 3mins on the lake. But it's your sled, and you guys will buy HP at any cost....

I can add, I have a friend with nearly 10000 miles on his RX1 and most of the miles with the EK plugs...but I am just relaying the true technical info...

 

[Srxspec]

Ran 1000 miles with the plugs in the Apex now and they are working flawlessly. There is literally hundreds of these plugs out there from SUPERTUNER and others setups on the RX-1's and they perform great. I have had 2 plugs foul in the middle of summer on a Vector, but otherwise no issues.

 

[byoffcr]

Ran 1000 miles with the plugs in the Apex now and they are working flawlessly. There is literally hundreds of these plugs out there from SUPERTUNER and others setups on the RX-1's and they perform great. I have had 2 plugs foul in the middle of summer on a Vector, but otherwise no issues.

Agree with Allen. Have these plugs in all 12 of our sleds since 03 and no problems. 5000 miles plus on some of the sleds.

 

[BlueMax]

I can not believe all of this hype on a stock engine with a plug change. First none of us know how the dyno tests were done. How many sets of plugs were tested? What were the gaps set at? Were different gaps tried on all sets of plugs? What fuel was used? Was more than one fuel tried? How many engines were they tried on? What temperature was the test run at (the Apex adjusts fuel mapping for air temp)? What was the timing set at on this test sled? I will not get into what is required to properly test this scenario. I can tell you the time and money required would be very high.

Now here is an even a bigger question. After 500 to 1000 miles, what are the performance gains or losses? I can understand racers changing plugs for the last hundredth of a second gain, but on a stock sled for trail riding this doesn't make a lot of sense. Then, add in the difficulty to change plugs and high cost at $32 ($8 a plug) this decision even gets tougher to make.

Please do not get me wrong. I applaud the members for sharing this kind of information with the other members.