06vectorgt
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
ReX said:
Now thats an outstanding question to ask Hy-Gear about!
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
If there was a way to add a second spring to the stock spring to keep it from bottoming.. (like the M-10) the stock spring would be awsome
I disagree with snowtech about the range of weights for riders for the stock spring!
I would say you are O.K. up to maybe 210lbs if you are not an aggressive or fast rider.. (with the stock spring) after that you have to have a bigger spring
I disagree with snowtech about the range of weights for riders for the stock spring!
I would say you are O.K. up to maybe 210lbs if you are not an aggressive or fast rider.. (with the stock spring) after that you have to have a bigger spring
Bodacious
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
In effect that is the way that Hy-Gear approaches this problem ( at least it was true on my Renegade ). The rear shock would have two springs, one with a very high strength spring for the big bangers, using a crossover to mate the two together.welterracer said:
skmon
Extreme
alaskanbowtie
Expert
Apex Mnt. springs/shocks availability?
Do you know if they can make a set of springs or already have one for the rear on a Mountain Apex stock suspension ? Yamaha has the heavy spring available for like 250.00 but a dual rate spring would be much better, I'm 310lbs. with gear, so a stiffer spring is a must . Also does anyone know if the stock shocks on the Mnt. susp. are re-valveable ?
>>>>skmon said:
Do you know if they can make a set of springs or already have one for the rear on a Mountain Apex stock suspension ? Yamaha has the heavy spring available for like 250.00 but a dual rate spring would be much better, I'm 310lbs. with gear, so a stiffer spring is a must . Also does anyone know if the stock shocks on the Mnt. susp. are re-valveable ?
Superman
TY 4 Stroke Master
06vectorgt said:
Most of the engineering is done on a computer. They can type parameters into a computer and have a pretty good idea of what they need. I have called Fox in California before and talked to them about rear air shocks and external air compressors just like this air ride M-10 article in this months snowtech. (not that I got anywhere but I did talk to someone there....hell it might have been a janitor) From what I have experienced with Air ride in big trucks and after riding Yami's with floats last year I don't see any down side to using air for springs. Take any weight rider or different style of rider and you don't have to make any "tear your sled apart" changes to get it how you want it. Increase or decrease air pressure...that's it. You could forget about springs wearing out or sagging. It's AIR. I admit a dual rate spring is probably better than a stock or straight rate but air has no limitation. You could set a sled up for a 100 lb. woman to a 400 lb. giant in a minute. A rear air shock IMO is easier than you think. Besides do you think front floats for a F-7 fit a Apex, Fusion or REV? I don't . Besides I'm sure they could charge atleast 6-8 hundred for 1 shock. Hell maybe Yamaha should contract them and incorporate the full rate adjuster cable into the shock also.
jimmie d
TY 4 Stroke Master
Dual Titanium spring on a front Ohlins from Hygear.
Jim
Jim
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Dual Rate Springs
I put the heavy rate spring on the back of my Attak last season. The stock spring and my weight it bottomed terrible in the rough. Did not get enough time to really give an accurate appraisal, before winter left. I had an 02 600 Polaris with M-10. I had FAST M-10 suspension update done in that one as well. I learned from FAST that Polaris made decision to go with a soft suspension because most people would not buy with a stiffer feel on the floor. They updated valving, springs, the remote and a new front shock with stiffer spring. It was like night and day. Did the Yamaha heavy spring help. Yes. Can it be better with what HyGear dual rate and revalve and remote has got coming? Yep. Sounds like I will be trying it.
I put the heavy rate spring on the back of my Attak last season. The stock spring and my weight it bottomed terrible in the rough. Did not get enough time to really give an accurate appraisal, before winter left. I had an 02 600 Polaris with M-10. I had FAST M-10 suspension update done in that one as well. I learned from FAST that Polaris made decision to go with a soft suspension because most people would not buy with a stiffer feel on the floor. They updated valving, springs, the remote and a new front shock with stiffer spring. It was like night and day. Did the Yamaha heavy spring help. Yes. Can it be better with what HyGear dual rate and revalve and remote has got coming? Yep. Sounds like I will be trying it.
Not to hyjack this thread talking about the new dual-rate springs, but this seems to be the "mono-shock spring" thread with all the guys in the know.
The wife and I are both getting a snow-checked Attak GT. I weight 165lb and like to jump when I see a nice opportunity, but not huge doubles or anything like that. Maybe 3-4ft in the air for flat landings. Will the stock spring be good for me? If so, what position for the clip?
My wife weighs 140lb, and she was fine with her 02 Polaris 800 Edge rear springs set as soft as they would go, and the soft PSS fox that was in it, so I am pretty sure the stocker will be fine for her. Any Idea of clip position?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Doug
The wife and I are both getting a snow-checked Attak GT. I weight 165lb and like to jump when I see a nice opportunity, but not huge doubles or anything like that. Maybe 3-4ft in the air for flat landings. Will the stock spring be good for me? If so, what position for the clip?
My wife weighs 140lb, and she was fine with her 02 Polaris 800 Edge rear springs set as soft as they would go, and the soft PSS fox that was in it, so I am pretty sure the stocker will be fine for her. Any Idea of clip position?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
Doug
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Doug said:
You should be fine. I'd try it out and then maybe put it on the second clip.
06vectorgt
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Superman said:
Dude, Thanks for the insult. I have worked in the Aerospace Engineering/Design/Manufacturing field for 30 years as a Tech, Engineer, Sr. Engineer, Manager of Manufacturing Engineering and well versed in many C.A.D. systems such as Applicon 870, 880, Pallette, AutoCad, and AutoCad Lite. My designs fly in the B1-B, B-2, YF-22 ATF etc etc, You don't think you bang on a keyboard and shocks come popping out do you? I don't!
It must be my time of the month
Iceman57
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I still believe that Yamaha valved the rear shock wrong. I'm 195 suited up and with the stock spring in the first clip position I only bottom on large bumps at high speeds. A re-valve for more bottom control using the stock spring will solve the problem and leave you with the plush ride of the mono shock suspension. I had mine valved for more bottom control. Basically the shock starts to slow more aggressively starting 3/4 of the way through the travel leaving the rest of the ride smooth. I have yet to try mine out but I’ve read nothing but good things from the posts of those who have had theirs re-valved.
Superman
TY 4 Stroke Master
06vectorgt said:Superman said:
Dude, Thanks for the insult. I have worked in the Aerospace Engineering/Design/Manufacturing field for 30 years as a Tech, Engineer, Sr. Engineer, Manager of Manufacturing Engineering and well versed in many C.A.D. systems such as Applicon 870, 880, Pallette, AutoCad, and AutoCad Lite. My designs fly in the B1-B, B-2, YF-22 ATF etc etc, You don't think you bang on a keyboard and shocks come popping out do you? I don't!
It must be my time of the month
Sorry about that I probably should have read that a little closer. doesn't sound so good when I re-read it. My point was computers will get you in the ball park as far as spec's on one of these shocks. The Shocks already exist for a front shock application so it's not like they're re-inventing the wheel. Blue prints come popping out of computers and We make proto-types and test for production.
06vectorgt
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Apology accepted, I shouldn't be so damn touchy either!
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
One issue that I think you guys should be considering is the design of the monoshock suspension places high bending loads on the front pivot arm that are essentially proportional to the force transmitted through the shock assembly (loaded spring + shock damping). These suspensions are highly stressed to begin with (compared to a more traditional suspension where the pivot arms essentially only see tension and compression) and rely on bottoming control through the bumpers on the rails to limit the stresses on the pivot arms.
If you throw in a stiff shock and a stiff spring the stresses go up substantially on the arms when when you hit large bumps.
Last season Yamaha re-valved my monoshock to improve the damping, especially on compression. The ride was awesome. Plush ride on smaller bumps and extremely good bottoming control. Another benefit, the RA adjuster provided a huge range of damping adjustment. Unfortunately the front pivot arm broke twice and the rear pivot arm once. Each time they broke I had them reinforced more and more and each time the front one broke in a different location. I actually started out the season with the front pivot arm slightly reinforced (based on my experience the year prior), hoping that I wouldn't see any cracks forming. The first actual crack occur ed after approximately 3500-4000 miles of riding. You guys might be happy enough with that, but I don't want to have any structural suspension failures ever (I never did before I came over to Yamaha in 29 years of sledding).
If I was going to run a monoshock suspension this season I would run the same valving along with the heavy duty spring again (the spring I ran is only 1 step up from the standard - there are many stiffer springs than that available). I would have the front pivot arm reinforced even more. I believe by the end of last season I had the pivot arm very close to strong enough for the shock/spring combination (basically boxed in between each outer pair of "vertical" tubes and put a gusset at the top between the inner pair and the cross beam).
If you throw in a stiff shock and a stiff spring the stresses go up substantially on the arms when when you hit large bumps.
Last season Yamaha re-valved my monoshock to improve the damping, especially on compression. The ride was awesome. Plush ride on smaller bumps and extremely good bottoming control. Another benefit, the RA adjuster provided a huge range of damping adjustment. Unfortunately the front pivot arm broke twice and the rear pivot arm once. Each time they broke I had them reinforced more and more and each time the front one broke in a different location. I actually started out the season with the front pivot arm slightly reinforced (based on my experience the year prior), hoping that I wouldn't see any cracks forming. The first actual crack occur ed after approximately 3500-4000 miles of riding. You guys might be happy enough with that, but I don't want to have any structural suspension failures ever (I never did before I came over to Yamaha in 29 years of sledding).
If I was going to run a monoshock suspension this season I would run the same valving along with the heavy duty spring again (the spring I ran is only 1 step up from the standard - there are many stiffer springs than that available). I would have the front pivot arm reinforced even more. I believe by the end of last season I had the pivot arm very close to strong enough for the shock/spring combination (basically boxed in between each outer pair of "vertical" tubes and put a gusset at the top between the inner pair and the cross beam).