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Real World 1500 Mile Low Down of new Ski Doo XR-S 900 Turbo vs. SideWinder

KnappAttack said:
Hey thats my old pal Gus Bohne. I ported him up a 1050 Cat triple back in the day. He makes some beaucoup power with the turboed two-strokes he helps tune. For a period of time he held the Dynotech HP record. I think that 4 cylinder 1700 went about 700 HP back a few years ago.
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That’s the one in the pic!!! Man that guy is my hero! Tuning and failure analysis second to none. I’ve read all his posts over on Snowest & Hardcore, but he seems to have disappeared from forums. The last one I could find of Uncle Gus was on the Polaris forum.
He figured out everything that troubles the 2 stroke turbocharging world and was nice enough to freely help regular guys like me on the forums. I have about 10 different threads of his saved into my favorites!
 

Back on topic. A stock Winder will beat a stock 900T. A tuned 900T will run with or beat a stock Winder. A tuned Winder will kill everything!

Winder advantages are power and front suspension.

900T advantages are Doo quality, rear suspension and ZERO Cat DNA.
 
KnappAttack said:
Nope, even in 60 foot HP wins. What most don't realize is you want HP with a wide powerband below peak HP RPM though. Bottom line is less TQ with higher RPM HP is faster and quicker. TQ does nothing without RPM. You can put 1000 FT LBS on a shaft and without RPM no work gets done.



Same HP will run the same being equal weight.

The difference will lie with how wide the powerband is on the two-stroke. High RPM two-strokes will always have wider powerbands than say a lower RPM two-stroke, even though the low RPM two-stroke has more and higher TQ it will lose to the higher RPM two-stroke with less TQ but higher RPM in the field both making the same HP. The Higher RPM engine with less TQ can also take advantage of a wider RPM spread and gear lower also multiplying the TQ being seen at the tracks front drive. High RPM with less TQ is a win-win.




Interesting, as I still own the 800 class record to this day with the V-Max4.

My 800 was faster than the 1000's back in the day and still faster than most 1000's to ever hit the track. Not many 1000's have been quicker than I ran with my little 800. No 800 Doo, Polaris or Cat compares to my old V-Max4 800. There was a reason they all bitched about it, and it. It was so intimidating to the 1000's, that many great racers retired or gave up because they got beat and even drove around by my 800 on their 1000's. One highly respected racer threw his helmet down after I won the 1000 class at the series and said the day I can't beat a lousy 800 with my 1000 is the day I retire, and he did. That was the last time we ever raced against him. Many just gave up ice racing. And it happened year after year at the series in the 1000 class, proving the little V-max4 800 was for real, not winning it just one year, but year after year after year. Thats domination :flag:
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Nice, i think Tiina's running 8.16@155mph on asphalt but got her #*$&@ kicked by a 2006 apex running 7.44@182.9mph 1000cc class 1/4 mile ,if that was the record in 2010 what times were you running with the vmax 800?
 
XP123 said:
Back on topic. A stock Winder will beat a stock 900T. A tuned 900T will run with or beat a stock Winder. A tuned Winder will kill everything!

Winder advantages are power and front suspension.

900T advantages are Doo quality, rear suspension and ZERO Cat DNA.
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That pretty much sums it up. Nuff said.
Does that mean the post is over? ORRRRRRRRRRRR..............can we now go wildly off topic since it's summer?
 
Your already off topic talking about a Ski-Doo on a Yamaha site.
I say we change the topic too why Sidewinder’s are so much better than Everything else and go to town!!
Let’s go for 200 pages!
 
KnappAttack said:
So right. HP wins every time even with less TQ. let’s see if he get it.

HP is the only thing that matters, along with a wide power-band to drive thru. I’ll take less tq and more RPM all day long for the win in a snowmobile.
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See I think all of you dont get it. Torque makes hp! Two engines both turning 8500rpm the one at that rpm making the most torque makes the most hp. Don't get confused with peak torque. We can argue all day about hp but without torque there is no hp. More torque, more hp. Less torque, less hp. Too think this all started because of a comment of torque stretches your arms and a Harley with lager displacement making no more hp but more torque.

I ran two strokes for years and when I went to 4 strokes I was amazed by the quicker pull of a sled with less hp that had the same top end as a two stroke with more hp.
 
Total misinformation but what the heck, at least it’s one more post closer to 200 pages!

Where ever you live (nobody knows), there must be some good Herbs growing in the woods!

36543375-7B99-4A33-B600-83482DB7E7AD.jpeg
 
Sasquatch said:
See I think all of you dont get it. Torque makes hp! Two engines both turning 8500rpm the one at that rpm making the most torque makes the most hp. Don't get confused with peak torque. We can argue all day about hp but without torque there is no hp. More torque, more hp. Less torque, less hp. Too think this all started because of a comment of torque stretches your arms and a Harley with lager displacement making no more hp but more torque.

I ran two strokes for years and when I went to 4 strokes I was amazed by the quicker pull of a sled with less hp that had the same top end as a two stroke with more hp.
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Apex motor has only 77 ft/lbs of torque that’s like a 600cc motor from the early 90’s bro.
It’s all horsepower and gear reduction.
You just proved yourself wrong.
 
HP is a factor of torque. You build or design your engine to take advantage of the intended use. If you want a high rpm high HP engine you need to build it so the torque will carry to the upper RPM and not fall off. This could be a combination of cams, intake and head port design all of which will move or determine the torque curve. You will have zero HP if you have zero torque as its a mathematical calculation based off the torque curve of the engine. In drag racing you design the engine to carry the torque over a broad range of rpm and hold it to make bug smoke up top. When the vehicle shifts or pulls the rpm down you want it to sweep that torque to keep the vehicle at max acceleration and pull back to max RPM as fast as possible as your max RPM should be your max HP number as well. This falls in no matter if its a car, sled, mini bike......

Example
7800RPM 800lbs TQ 1188hp
8000RPM 800lbs TQ 1218hp
8200RPM 800lbs TQ 1249hp
 
The debate was what’s more important Horsepower or torque. Many times you’ll here meatheads say “It’s only 125 horsepower BUT it’s got gobs of torque so it’s just as fast”
False statement ^^^
This was the selling point for the “Big Twins” and the phasing out of the Triple 2 strokes.
Hence the question what’s more important?
 
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Sasquatch said:
See I think all of you dont get it. Torque makes hp! Two engines both turning 8500rpm the one at that rpm making the most torque makes the most hp. Don't get confused with peak torque. We can argue all day about hp but without torque there is no hp. More torque, more hp. Less torque, less hp. Too think this all started because of a comment of torque stretches your arms and a Harley with lager displacement making no more hp but more torque.

I ran two strokes for years and when I went to 4 strokes I was amazed by the quicker pull of a sled with less hp that had the same top end as a two stroke with more hp.
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"I ran two strokes for years and when I went to 4 strokes I was amazed by the quicker pull of a sled with less hp that had the same top end as a two stroke with more hp."
This statement is wrong because an Apex had the SAME hp as most 800's of the day, 150-155.
Therefore, your statement should read - "I ran two strokes for years and when I went to 4 strokes I was amazed by the quicker pull of a sled with less torque that had the same top end as a two stroke with more torque."
This would be true since the most torque an 800 had was 100ish, while the Apex peaked about 83ish.
You were amazed by the horsepower.
 
Apex has a much wider power band than a 2 stroke. It was also a high horsepower low torque engine, like an F1 car. It has a gear reduction on the motor tho, manufacturing torque, by reducing rpm at the clutch.
Proving horsepower is The KING.
 
ClutchMaster said:
Apex has a much wider power band than a 2 stroke. It was also a high horsepower low torque engine, like an F1 car. It has a gear reduction on the motor tho, manufacturing torque, by reducing rpm at the clutch.
Proving horsepower is The KING.
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Yep, and MotoGP bikes. One liter engines spinning 16000 with 47mm stroke. Low torque - huge horsepower - blistering fast.
 
So when I wake up in the morning it takes alot of torque to pee in the toilet that my heels come off the floor.
How much hp is that?
:Rockon:
 
1nc 2000 said:
So when I wake up in the morning it takes alot of torque to pee in the toilet that my heels come off the floor.
How much hp is that?
:Rockon:
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Depends on rpm's, age, girth, alcohol content, LDL count, single or married and most importantly if you had sex within 2 hours of the event.

P.S: Peeing after sex can be strenuous due to a split stream requiring more torque
P.S2: If you don't know what a split stream is.......................................get a divorce!
 
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