Rear suspension sagging?

[DIwarrior]

My wife’s 2020 LTX-GT had the same problem last month. The dealer replaced the rear QS3 pulled and inspected the front rear shock. (No problem) That did not solve the problem, so they ordered new springs. Once installed problem solved. We put in spring # SMA-8JP47-71. Supposed to be a 10 degree more twist in the coil for additional lift. Original diameter. Have put over 1,200 miles on it since then. Working perfectly, no more sag.

 

[cannondale27]

I believe the spring are bad. Seems like a bad batch of torsion springs. I know that sounds crazy but this is one of many complaints about the sled sagging badly in the rear. IMO the torsion spring are JUNK. Seems the 20’s had a bad batch

It sure is looking that way. BUT remember they raised those arm mounts 1 1/2in at spindle. This is just like a sled with dollies under skis. Rear suspension geometry should have been changed to compensate for this. Hopefully no older skids made there way into newer sleds. I know SwampCat has both and is going to do a side by side comparison. One question to be asked is have you guys with this issue ridden the sled as is? Reason I ask is many skids do this exact thing and ride just fine. A trail is not a shop floor which is perfectly flat and the track under load also affects this.

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

I am curious about this too. My 2020 LTX GT appears to be doing the same thing. It has never been ridden. Everything is stock from original setup.

The rear suspension sits down and the scissor linkage is against the rubber bump stops when it couples the front and rear. You have to pick it up to get it off of the rubber bump stops. This is when it becomes uncoupled. After you pick it up it sets right back on the bump stops

When my wife and I jump on the sled the rear suspension doesn't hardly move. This is because it is sitting solid on the bump stops and is working as a coupled suspension only. I know it isn't broke in yet and freed up. But I was shocked at how stiff it felt. It reminded me of my Apex XTX.

I was at my friends shop today and there was two sidewinders there. His and his sons. Both older sidewinders LTX SE with QS3s all the way around. You jump on them and they feel extremely plush, as I remembered them riding when we drove them on the snow. They both sit up higher in the back. And the scissor linkage is a long ways from hitting the bump stops. They move easy till they hit the bump stops and couple. Both of their torsion springs are set to soft.

I hadn't worried much about it as the torsion springs are still set on soft. But since I looked at theirs it has me concerned since theirs work perfect on soft, and mine sags down to the stops!

Did warranty cover tighter coiled spring? Suspension was the one thing I really thought didn't need to be overhauled on this sled to get it to work correctly!

 

[hellflyer]

It sure is looking that way. BUT remember they raised those arm mounts 1 1/2in at spindle. This is just like a sled with dollies under skis. Rear suspension geometry should have been changed to compensate for this. Hopefully no older skids made there way into newer sleds. I know SwampCat has both and is going to do a side by side comparison. One question to be asked is have you guys with this issue ridden the sled as is? Reason I ask is many skids do this exact thing and ride just fine. A trail is not a shop floor which is perfectly flat and the track under load also affects this.

I can lift the front of the sled ,skis 1.5” off the ground when my transfer blocks lock up on my 20se on the last hole of limiter. Stock was on second hole. That’s with front suspension fully extended. Test with my forklift. I’m 270lbs and ride between tortion setting 1 and 2. And I ride hard at times

 

[ThatOneGuy'sBrother]

My transfer blocks are hitting at all times with it sitting flat on the shop floor. Only time they dont is when you pick up the rear of the sled. It is sitting in the trailer now. Feel like getting it back out and putting it in the garage. Kind of upsetting that there is another issue to take care of before it ever hits the snow.

 

[swampcat]

It sure is looking that way. BUT remember they raised those arm mounts 1 1/2in at spindle. This is just like a sled with dollies under skis. Rear suspension geometry should have been changed to compensate for this. Hopefully no older skids made there way into newer sleds. I know SwampCat has both and is going to do a side by side comparison. One question to be asked is have you guys with this issue ridden the sled as is? Reason I ask is many skids do this exact thing and ride just fine. A trail is not a shop floor which is perfectly flat and the track under load also affects this.

Well here is the latest. Dialed out a lot of spring preload from the ski shocks, have 4 1/2" of thread showing. Backed off to loose, then added preload to tighten the spring, seemed to stay loose longer than usual, a few more turns of the spring and finally felt stable. This was where I found to be a good safe starting point. NOW, the track is sitting flatter on the floor, and the amount of DEAD sag is about half of what it was..Also noticed, standing in the footwells and holding the bars and rocking the sled from left to right, it seemed VERY planted, very little rock side to side. With no snow in sight, all I can do is garage bounce. All of this goes out the window and get to start over when I get my QS3Rs back from Steve. For now just playing with the thing fresh out of the box. Speaking of, the derelict dealer I bought from NEVER even started this thing, battery was almost dead, must have put a WHOLE quart of gas in it. At least they put the skis on straight. I dont blame anyone but MYSELF for not making them start it up and run through the functions. FOOLISH me, trusted them. All is good now, spent 36 hours in the rod shop dismantiling and reassembling Its ready for its maiden voyage. Only thing found was a free rivet in the belly pan and some loose cable tie butts. Who ever is making the latest electrical connectors sure makes them good, played hell getting alot of them apart to grease. Till I get a test ride in, project is parked.

 

[DIwarrior]

I am curious about this too. My 2020 LTX GT appears to be doing the same thing. It has never been ridden. Everything is stock from original setup.

The rear suspension sits down and the scissor linkage is against the rubber bump stops when it couples the front and rear. You have to pick it up to get it off of the rubber bump stops. This is when it becomes uncoupled. After you pick it up it sets right back on the bump stops

When my wife and I jump on the sled the rear suspension doesn't hardly move. This is because it is sitting solid on the bump stops and is working as a coupled suspension only. I know it isn't broke in yet and freed up. But I was shocked at how stiff it felt. It reminded me of my Apex XTX.

I was at my friends shop today and there was two sidewinders there. His and his sons. Both older sidewinders LTX SE with QS3s all the way around. You jump on them and they feel extremely plush, as I remembered them riding when we drove them on the snow. They both sit up higher in the back. And the scissor linkage is a long ways from hitting the bump stops. They move easy till they hit the bump stops and couple. Both of their torsion springs are set to soft.

I hadn't worried much about it as the torsion springs are still set on soft. But since I looked at theirs it has me concerned since theirs work perfect on soft, and mine sags down to the stops!

Did warranty cover tighter coiled spring? Suspension was the one thing I really thought didn't need to be overhauled on this sled to get it to work correctly!

Yes, warranty covered replacing the torsion springs.

 

[swampcat]

I am curious about this too. My 2020 LTX GT appears to be doing the same thing. It has never been ridden. Everything is stock from original setup.

The rear suspension sits down and the scissor linkage is against the rubber bump stops when it couples the front and rear. You have to pick it up to get it off of the rubber bump stops. This is when it becomes uncoupled. After you pick it up it sets right back on the bump stops

When my wife and I jump on the sled the rear suspension doesn't hardly move. This is because it is sitting solid on the bump stops and is working as a coupled suspension only. I know it isn't broke in yet and freed up. But I was shocked at how stiff it felt. It reminded me of my Apex XTX.

I was at my friends shop today and there was two sidewinders there. His and his sons. Both older sidewinders LTX SE with QS3s all the way around. You jump on them and they feel extremely plush, as I remembered them riding when we drove them on the snow. They both sit up higher in the back. And the scissor linkage is a long ways from hitting the bump stops. They move easy till they hit the bump stops and couple. Both of their torsion springs are set to soft.

I hadn't worried much about it as the torsion springs are still set on soft. But since I looked at theirs it has me concerned since theirs work perfect on soft, and mine sags down to the stops!

Did warranty cover tighter coiled spring? Suspension was the one thing I really thought didn't need to be overhauled on this sled to get it to work correctly!

Noticed this also, mine is NOT sitting on the rubber bumpers or the coupler blocks, BUT when pushed down from rear bumper, you can see the skid rails travel backwards in the track as the rear squats and nears the coupler blocks, THEN it gets real stiff, like said above . My front limiter straps are tight sitting on floor, meaning none of the front skid shock is collapsed, and the slider portion of the front arm appears to be slid all the way forward. Only riding of this machine so far was backing it straight out of the pickup onto the lawn and riding into the garage, about 100 feet.

 

[cannondale27]

Thanks Swampcat. I am confident it will work. Just need to sort through the changes.

 

[cannondale27]

I can lift the front of the sled ,skis 1.5” off the ground when my transfer blocks lock up on my 20se on the last hole of limiter. Stock was on second hole. That’s with front suspension fully extended. Test with my forklift. I’m 270lbs and ride between tortion setting 1 and 2. And I ride hard at times

That seems about perfect. You liked the ride and handling right?

 

[mooser17]

I believe the spring are bad. Seems like a bad batch of torsion springs. I know that sounds crazy but this is one of many complaints about the sled sagging badly in the rear. IMO the torsion spring are JUNK. Seems the 20’s had a bad batch

I agree bad torsion springs! And Yamaha wont replace them as they are back ordered grrrrrrrr

 

[hellflyer]

That seems about perfect. You liked the ride and handling right?

Yes. Better than my viper. I don’t bottom the center shock no where near as much on this skid

 

[swampcat]

That last little bit of sag goes away when sitting on the sled. So when in the " RIDE ZONE " the only time the sag will be back is when the sled is in the air, or the suspension drops into a hole underneath.

 

[cannondale27]

I wonder if they are putting the SRX/Thundercat torsions on all like Cat did? If so the ski springs should be dual rate to match setup.

 

[jonlafon1]

Something is off with what guys are explaining. Hell maybe put the wrong springs on the assembly line when building sleds. It’s just strange what guys are describing.