Reverse issues

[chucknorris]

Just had an issue with the sled?? I put it in the trailer then went to put it in reverse to back up a bit and no go!!! it beeps and the "R" flash's but gets sluggish and stays ingaged in drive.. any suggestions on to why or what or how to fix?? thanks

this is my first winter with a yammy and wondering if i mad a big mistake.... also having staring issues and the machine only has 1056 km on it...

 

[stingray719]

Those are both known issues. The cold start issue is fixed by changing the stock ECU to the updated cold start ECU.

The reverse issue was addressed (somewhat) by a belt change but I always just rock the sled and it changs gear. In odd occasion if I am stuck bad and cannot move I pop the one fastener on the lower left panel and put my hand on the secondary clutch and move it and you will fell it CLICK into gear.

Call your Yamaha shop with the serial number and see if the ball joint update (or others needed) was done. The cold start update expired in 2010 so that one you have to do but it is as simple as buying the ECU and popping it in under the battery on right side. In my opinion no need for the exhaust valve spring part of that update...none of my 3 have that.

PM me for my phone number if you get lost.

 

[Mooseman]

Here's what I found helped on mine. Adjust the chain on the "loose" side. Tighten the adjusting bolt until you start feeling a bit of resistance and then back off 1/4 turn. If it really doesn't want to shift, get off and lift the rear end. It still happens once in a while with mine.

At that mileage, you probably still have your original belt. If you get a new belt, you will probably get the new updated one. It's not really any better, it just sits lower on the secondary to allow it to turn a bit easier when shifting into reverse but at the loss of some performance on take off. This thread has some info on it.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=123582

 

[BombaPolaYama]

Just had an issue with the sled?? I put it in the trailer then went to put it in reverse to back up a bit and no go!!! it beeps and the "R" flash's but gets sluggish and stays ingaged in drive.. any suggestions on to why or what or how to fix?? thanks

this is my first winter with a yammy and wondering if i mad a big mistake.... also having staring issues and the machine only has 1056 km on it...

Sorry, is that starting or steering issues?

 

[perza]

This same reverse problem still remains in 2011 MP. I've struggled with this issue from the very beginning when I bought it three years ago. When you start the cold engine, there's no change to get the reverse on. The problem occurs very seldom when the engine is warm.

I've also understood that there's nothing you can do for it. I'm a little concerned what may happen in the worst case. I just asked this from a local Yamaha dealer, they said that only thing you can do is to wait that the engine is warm enough. The dealer told that they have repaired few gearboxes lately, because the reverse has been forced on. The whole gearbox has bursted in pieces and the cost has been 2000 Euros! They also said - no factory warranty or updates available.

They strictly recommended not to force the reverse on when the sled is not warm, for example by shaking the sled or pulling backwards a little. Actually, this is just what I've been doing every time...
Well, if the waiting is the only thing you can do, it means that it takes at least 10 minutes before you can drive the sled down from the trailer. Unless you don't want to pull it down.

 

[Mooseman]

I agree that you would need to wait for the engine to slow down after start up before trying to engage reverse. It just puts too much tension on the belt and clutch to allow the dog gears inside to slip into place and lock.

I have to say that since I changed my belt, shifting has been worse on mine but I didn't follow the instructions for the update as I removed a shim to bring it back up to where it should be, which probably puts more tension on the clutch. Now 90% of the time I have to either rock it back and forth or lift the rear to get it engaged. Maybe once the belt wears in it might get easier, like the original belt.

 

[wacnstac]

I have a 2009. Most of the time reverse works but sometimes is seems to half way engage or be caught in no man's land with no Forward or Reverse. I've had to shut the sled down at times to get it to re-engage into F. Need to remember to try rocking the sled next time, but with the weight of the thing, I don't think rocking will be easy.

I have to back my sled into a shipping container for storage so reverse not working is not an option.

 

[BombaPolaYama]

I have a 2009. Most of the time reverse works but sometimes is seems to half way engage or be caught in no man's land with no Forward or Reverse. I've had to shut the sled down at times to get it to re-engage into F. Need to remember to try rocking the sled next time, but with the weight of the thing, I don't think rocking will be easy.

I have to back my sled into a shipping container for storage so reverse not working is not an option.

I find is too heavy to rock so I always find it easier to lift it at the rear although embarrassing if someone is watching

 

[perza]

Now 90% of the time I have to either rock it back and forth or lift the rear to get it engaged

If you have to do that even at low engine revs, something is wrong in the mechanics. This is just the way how to break the whole gearbox in the end - Says Yamaha Finland.
Hmm..I have used exactly the same tricks for three years now, but only for cold engine and high revs, no need for the tricks at low revs -> no gearbox breakage, yet.

Today I left my sled at service for track and drivers change. At the same, they will also check the reverse. They have repaired many MP's gearboxes breaked by this reverse issue. I did not left it at Yamaha, I left it at Skidoo/Lynx dealer. Even them were very well aware of this MP/Phazer "general feature" (not a problem) as they said. They said there may be some visual indications which can be seen if the gearbox is going to break soon. They also said they know what to do if these incations are found. I have no idea what can be seen there and what could be done to fix it? I asked them to give me a call if there's something wrong when they open it. I will go there and check by myself.

 

[wacnstac]

I have a 2009. Most of the time reverse works but sometimes is seems to half way engage or be caught in no man's land with no Forward or Reverse. I've had to shut the sled down at times to get it to re-engage into F. Need to remember to try rocking the sled next time, but with the weight of the thing, I don't think rocking will be easy.

I have to back my sled into a shipping container for storage so reverse not working is not an option.

I find is too heavy to rock so I always find it easier to lift it at the rear although embarrassing if someone is watching

If it is too heavy to rock, isn't it even harder to lift? How does lifting the rear help the machine find the gear?

 

[Mooseman]

I believe it allows the track to turn a bit, allowing the dog gears to slip into place. It's not a full off the ground lift. Basically just pull it up till the rear suspension is extended.

I might try re-adjusting the chain again. I had a hard time finding that sweet spot after the track change.

 

[BombaPolaYama]

I have a 2009. Most of the time reverse works but sometimes is seems to half way engage or be caught in no man's land with no Forward or Reverse. I've had to shut the sled down at times to get it to re-engage into F. Need to remember to try rocking the sled next time, but with the weight of the thing, I don't think rocking will be easy.

I have to back my sled into a shipping container for storage so reverse not working is not an option.

I find is too heavy to rock so I always find it easier to lift it at the rear although embarrassing if someone is watching

If it is too heavy to rock, isn't it even harder to lift? How does lifting the rear help the machine find the gear?

How it works? I do not know. But this I know. It works!

 

[Mooseman]

Hallelujah!

[Sound of angels signing in the background]

My reverse works! And the problem was the new 8GK belt. Because it has been worse since I put on this new belt, I put an old 8GS back on and it works like a dream! Push the button and it just shifts. I don't even need to move or anything.

I don't know what the difference is because they are the same width. Maybe the angle.

 

[Mooseman]

Just to put some details on how I got it to work.

- Removed one shim from the secondary clutch
- Used the old 8GS-17641-00 belt instead of the 8GK-17641-10 belt specified in the reverse issue bulletin
- adjusted the chain on the "loose" side by adjusting it until I could feel it starting to contact the chain and back off 1/4 turn.

 

[Mooseman]

[Sound of me whacking those angles with a bat!]

Dammit! Went out on a long ride last night and the reverse is acting up again but still a bit less often. Maybe it's when the belt is really warm. Going into reverse is still a PITA but it still shifts back into forward gear easily.

But, it's not all bad news. I did notice two other things. My mileage is back up where it was last season and I can get it up to 130Km/h again despite a total of 1000 lbs. I noticed I needed more fuel and the max I could get on hard packed trail was 110Km/h. I assumed that the new track was causing this but I guess not. My son also put on a spare old 8GS belt on his '07 Phazer after he blew a new 8GK and he noticed that his reverse works even better than it did before and his worked relatively well.

Best I can figure, the belt is putting too much tension on the secondary clutch preventing the gears from slipping easily. I have to experiment a bit more to see if a good combination of belts and clutch shims can be found.