Secondary at 60 degrees - the good and the bad?

Turk said:
If your sled is running better with the white on a shortie your problem is your primary is overpowering your secondary & the white is helping keep a better balance but at a cost of some efficiency. You would be better off & gain a poopload of performance by lightening the primary clutch & loosening back the secondary pretension. By using the white you have the secondary & primary fighting against each other & ya sure; you may be faster then the pinlk but you would gain a lot more by taking out some primary weight. You want just enuff
pimary spring
primary weight
helix
secondary pretension
to accelerate at maxmum torque then slowly climb to max hp the fastest you can with out slipping or squeezing the secondary too much. 10 degree twist can mean 2-3 lengths in 660' on a different day in different conditions.
Click to expand...

Guys, do whatever works best for your sled. Test, Test and then Test again. Bottom line is what works for one guy may not work for the next. You can evaluate it, slice it, and dice it anyway you want but there is no perfect setup that everyone of us can bolt on and have exact same results.

One question for you Mike, is are these Apexs you are clutching studded?
Also, how do you explain my top end if your theory is right? Hope things are well in Manitoba. I hear you guys have a pile of snow up there...BBY
 
You got more top end cus your clutching was overshifting & the white was helping to hold everything back.That is the only way a stiffer secondary spring can help top end; you were overclutched. Less primary weight; shallower helix & less secondary pretension & then watch it pull. We have huge snow & getting another 20 cm(8-10") right now.When the sleds with stock clutching hook up well whether it is studded or non studded rpm,s drop & sled has to recover rpm,s. With less aggressive clutching it won,t drop rpm,s or you can compensate with more secondary spring. Try a shallower helix & pink spring & then see top end increase. Stock clutching is a compromise. My brain hurts!
 
I am running a 128 track with 204 studs, and i am pretty sure that it is hooking harder than a standard attak, especially with the way the chassis is set up. I am thinking the white might be something good to try with that set up, i know i have had to crank up the pink 10-20 deg at times to keep it from over shifting. Looking back on some of the test sessions this year, i wish i would have had one to try.

Honestly, it seems these apex's have a really wide window for what works, and that is just adding to the confusion of everyone trying to find the best set up. A good example.. i was running the stock stuff at 130 speedo in a 2000' run at 11,000, i put my ulmer setup back in, it was running at 10,400, and it ran 2-3 mph faster the same day, same distance. So much for the whole clutch rpm theory. There are obviously some other variables (like belt slippage) that the formula doesn't account for.
 
Mike, I tested 3 different secondary springs within one hour. Not a damn one of them dramatically effected the big end enough to say any of them were holding it back. Also, with less secondary tension my top end basically remained the same with White, Pink and Silver with the white showing the best speed. Im running stock weight, stock rivets and stick primary spring. I am not kidding you when I tell you that whats in my sled works in every condition the most consistant. 10300 of the hole and pulls to 10700-10800.

Hey, answer that studding question you goof. Dont make me come up there...lol
 
BBY, what gear are you running with that? 23? You running the stock helix or something else in there? And I second ya on the stock clutching.


My problem is that i am running 11000-11100 past 100 mph, and i am think i am loosing a little bit of pull on the big end. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get that down with the stock components. Its tough to add to the stock weights, so its either a softer primary spring, or maybe a helix?
 
SRXracer said:
BBY, what gear are you running with that? 23? You running the stock helix or something else in there? And I second ya on the stock clutching.


My problem is that i am running 11000-11100 past 100 mph, and i am think i am loosing a little bit of pull on the big end. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get that down with the stock components. Its tough to add to the stock weights, so its either a softer primary spring, or maybe a helix?
Click to expand...

Im running a 40 bottom with the stock helix and it has been machined.
Your getting really close to the rev limiter at those Rs. Pretty sure Yamaha doesnt make a heavier rivet than what you have in there so you kind of limited there. Have you tried a softer finishing primary spring?...BBY
 
I'm assuming that the advant-edge must be cut more aggressive than a similar stock helix, otherwise a 40 finish would raise rpm's? I
really wish everyone would just cut them all the same!!

Thanks for the tip.
 
SRXracer said:
BBY, what gear are you running with that? 23? You running the stock helix or something else in there? And I second ya on the stock clutching.


My problem is that i am running 11000-11100 past 100 mph, and i am think i am loosing a little bit of pull on the big end. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get that down with the stock components. Its tough to add to the stock weights, so its either a softer primary spring, or maybe a helix?
Click to expand...

How old is your belt... ?? maybe you overlooked that ,, maybe not..
 
I'm sure the belt is wore some, but i don't think it is wore excessively. But it is definatley something to try. The problem is, do you tune to a brand new belt, a slightly wore belt, or what? I tend to think a brand new belt is great, but your setup still has to work after you get a few 100 miles on it.
 
Yeah, like Brain says, run a new belt and tune from there. I dont like putting too many miles on a belt. Maybe 700 at most. They will last much longer than that, but I know the sled runs better the wider the belt is...BBY
 
BlueByYou2000 said:
Yeah, like Brain says, run a new belt and tune from there. I dont like putting too many miles on a belt. Maybe 700 at most. They will last much longer than that, but I know the sled runs better the wider the belt is...BBY
Click to expand...

Brian NOT Brain LMAO
 
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