Secondary clutch spring.

[helix]

Just tested the TPI orange secondary spring for those who have asked. We seem to be asked to compare this spring and it seems to be based from comments on this site. There seems to be a lot of speculation as to the pressure and torsion comparisons two aftermarket springs, and comparisons to the stock sidewinder secondary yellow spring. We were asked to compare the 3 springs many times. So this is it and thats all it is. It is numbers, not guesses or assumptions or anything like that. It does not matter to me if some other tests are done exactly the same or compared in different methods....this is numbers compared the same way. Thats all we can offer. At least it is better than some of the hearsay.


the spring (TPI orange)
It is also made from 5.7 mm wire which is the same as the Dalton Black/Orange, it is however approx .100" smaller diameter overall on the spring than stock Yamaha springs or the Dalton springs we have here. It is also just slightly shorter and uses less coils of wire. The characteristics will be different.

The stock sidewinder spring is from 6mm wire, ..shorter...but more coils again to make the big wire act a little lighter for twist.
The stock sidewinder spring is substantially heavier spring than any previous Yamaha springs.....especially for TORSION value.

The spring tang location of the Dalton Black orange is different than the yellow stock sidewinder spring ( you can see on the chart on our website the number of coils to indicate this). The Dalton Black /orange IS however, a stock Yamaha configuration and not some Arctic cat tang location like some have speculated. It is the same tang orientation as the Yamaha silver, etc. Yamaha use a few different variations of tang location...they use like the pink and yellow....they use like the White , ...they use like the Silver V max 4 spring). All of those tang locations are designed to be used in the standard method on spring tab location.

Compression:
The TPI Orange spring is 93 mm long, which is slightly shorter than a Dalton Black with orange stripe. ..it is, however, made with less coils, so that makes it progressively stronger as it compresses. Because of its slightly shorter length it is slightly less compression at the first compared load test height interval, ...but as it compresses, at the end of the stroke it is a few kg.s heavier ( approx 10 lbs stronger). When fully compressed it is slightly heavier load than the Dalton B/O or the stock spring.

Torsion (Twist) force:
It is the same size wire but less coils than the Dalton Black/orange, which will make the torsional value higher...and get higher progressively as it twists more. The more you twist it, the more it starts to surpass the others for required force to twist.
When the torsion of the Orange TPI spring is checked to 70 degrees of rotation on the same appliance as the others ( some of those were retested as well to confirm), it ends up at 13 kg.( approx 10 lbs more twist force than the Dalton Black/Orange),...and 2kg ( approx 5 lbs) more torsion force than the stock yellow sidewinder spring. A torsion pressure difference it way more noticed than a few lbs of compression difference. When twisting all of the springs at the same time the TPI orange one is very noticed that it is distinctly more torsion force, as some have noted. Some may decide to use less twist setting to suit their needs. Some on this forum have stated it works well ot lower torsion setting than stock and that may be the case.

The Dalton Black/orange is often set at 60 or 70 degrees. It seems that many of the tuned up ones seem to claim to use it at 6-1 setting. 6-1 setting on that Black orange is approx the same "torsional" force as the stock yellow one at 3-3. In my opinion 3-3 or 6-1 is plenty of twist, since some claim they have good results using B/O at 3-3 and adjusting their weights to suit, but probably more stockers and lower hp tunes.

The TPI orange is ( as related to the Dalton comparison chart):
-torsion 13 kg
-number of coils 4.5
-wire dia. 5.7mm
-free length 93mm
-compression loas @64mm= 29 kg
-compression load @49mm= 41kg
-compression load @ 39mm= 55kg



I'm going to copy a link to the chart from the Dalton website that shows the original test of the various Yamaha and Dalton clutch springs...the wire diameter...the number of coils, the load pressure at different intervals, and the torsion values**along with the corresponding notes that explain them.

http://www.daltonindustries.com/product_detail.php?product_id=293



There you have it.

 

[theewarrior]

Just tested the TPI orange secondary spring for those who have asked. We seem to be asked to compare this spring and it seems to be based from comments on this site. There seems to be a lot of speculation as to the pressure and torsion comparisons two aftermarket springs, and comparisons to the stock sidewinder secondary yellow spring. We were asked to compare the 3 springs many times. So this is it and thats all it is. It is numbers, not guesses or assumptions or anything like that. It does not matter to me if some other tests are done exactly the same or compared in different methods....this is numbers compared the same way. Thats all we can offer. At least it is better than some of the hearsay.


the spring (TPI orange)
It is also made from 5.7 mm wire which is the same as the Dalton Black/Orange, it is however approx .100" smaller diameter overall on the spring than stock Yamaha springs or the Dalton springs we have here. It is also just slightly shorter and uses less coils of wire. The characteristics will be different.

The stock sidewinder spring is from 6mm wire, ..shorter...but more coils again to make the big wire act a little lighter for twist.
The stock sidewinder spring is substantially heavier spring than any previous Yamaha springs.....especially for TORSION value.

The spring tang location of the Dalton Black orange is different than the yellow stock sidewinder spring ( you can see on the chart on our website the number of coils to indicate this). The Dalton Black /orange IS however, a stock Yamaha configuration and not some Arctic cat tang location like some have speculated. It is the same tang orientation as the Yamaha silver, etc. Yamaha use a few different variations of tang location...they use like the pink and yellow....they use like the White , ...they use like the Silver V max 4 spring). All of those tang locations are designed to be used in the standard method on spring tab location.

Compression:
The TPI Orange spring is 93 mm long, which is slightly shorter than a Dalton Black with orange stripe. ..it is, however, made with less coils, so that makes it progressively stronger as it compresses. Because of its slightly shorter length it is slightly less compression at the first compared load test height interval, ...but as it compresses, at the end of the stroke it is a few kg.s heavier ( approx 10 lbs stronger). When fully compressed it is slightly heavier load than the Dalton B/O or the stock spring.

Torsion (Twist) force:
It is the same size wire but less coils than the Dalton Black/orange, which will make the torsional value higher...and get higher progressively as it twists more. The more you twist it, the more it starts to surpass the others for required force to twist.
When the torsion of the Orange TPI spring is checked to 70 degrees of rotation on the same appliance as the others ( some of those were retested as well to confirm), it ends up at 13 kg.( approx 10 lbs more twist force than the Dalton Black/Orange),...and 2kg ( approx 5 lbs) more torsion force than the stock yellow sidewinder spring. A torsion pressure difference it way more noticed than a few lbs of compression difference. When twisting all of the springs at the same time the TPI orange one is very noticed that it is distinctly more torsion force, as some have noted. Some may decide to use less twist setting to suit their needs. Some on this forum have stated it works well ot lower torsion setting than stock and that may be the case.

The Dalton Black/orange is often set at 60 or 70 degrees. It seems that many of the tuned up ones seem to claim to use it at 6-1 setting. 6-1 setting on that Black orange is approx the same "torsional" force as the stock yellow one at 3-3. In my opinion 3-3 or 6-1 is plenty of twist, since some claim they have good results using B/O at 3-3 and adjusting their weights to suit, but probably more stockers and lower hp tunes.

The TPI orange is ( as related to the Dalton comparison chart):
-torsion 13 kg
-number of coils 4.5
-wire dia. 5.7mm
-free length 93mm
-compression loas @64mm= 29 kg
-compression load @49mm= 41kg
-compression load @ 39mm= 55kg



I'm going to copy a link to the chart from the Dalton website that shows the original test of the various Yamaha and Dalton clutch springs...the wire diameter...the number of coils, the load pressure at different intervals, and the torsion values**along with the corresponding notes that explain them.

http://www.daltonindustries.com/product_detail.php?product_id=293



There you have it.

So it's not the monster some are saying

 

[helix]

It has the strongest forces of those compared, but I'm not sure what constitutes a monster really, I'm just listing the pressures required to do the test. Maybe different uses or settings for different springs or applications...whatever.

 

[dem1000]

Should it fit better with steep helix?

 

[chaleurphantom]

I have tested both springs. The Orange Thunder Products in Secondary I had very hot clutches and belt. 3/3 and 3/2. The Orange/Black Dalton spring, I had hot clutch's and belt @ 3/3. Not as hot but hot.

I was running Heavy Hitters for both tests. Stock tune, stock 35 Helix on TP orange, 33/37 on Dalton black/orange. I removed Heavy Hitters and replaced with Stock weights and clutch's are only luke warm.

I have more testing to do but I am inclined to think that the aggressive profile of the Heavy Hitter weights need to be matched up with a steeper angle Helix.

I used Heavy Hitter weights in my Viper and they performed very well. No heat issues whatsoever. I am not sure of the angle of the stock Viper Helix but I believe it is much steeper than the 35 degree Sidewinder Helix.

 

[VX1R]

Curious to know what helix you were running when you tested both of these secondary springs.

Stock tune or not?

 

[chaleurphantom]

Curious to know what helix you were running when you tested both of these secondary springs.

Stock tune or not?

Stock tune, stock 35 Helix on TP orange, 33/37 on Dalton black/orange.

 

[VX1R]

Stock tune, stock 35 Helix on TP orange, 33/37 on Dalton black/orange.

Thanks!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

So it's not the monster some are saying

If wrapped at 3/1 or so, its pretty normal.

Problem is, everyone was told to wrap to 3/3 from last fall till about a week ago or so.

So just wrap them to the new setting and should work well

 

[Shagnos]

If wrapped at 3/1 or so, its pretty normal.

Problem is, everyone was told to wrap to 3/3 from last fall till about a week ago or so.

So just wrap them to the new setting and should work well

So wrap them until they are all about the same......

 

[ROCKERDAN]

So wrap them until they are all about the same......

You would have thought so eh? But everyone just followed the instructions.

Easy to say now isnt it....

 

[Shagnos]

 

[Stubbs]

It’s easy to make sheep say “bah”.......

 

[MDGFLHR]

I have a dalton black orange coming to do some more testing. I'm gonna give the 33/35 helix another go. It did help on the low end. I have a powertrail flash so I'm not making the extra boost down low like some on here. What twist is everyone using with the dalton? I also will try the TP orange at the new suggested setting. Last ride I went back to stock secondary and I do feel the 33/35 helix was quicker on the same trail with similar conditions. In one spot where I always nail it my top speed according to my GPS was about 4mph slower for said distance but I'm not holding any weight to it just a observation.

 

[jeffgilbert]

i have the tpi orange in my turbo viper wrapped at 3-2 with a 40/46 reverse helix i did notice hot belt do you think 3-1 would help it with the heat