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Secondary clutch spring.

helix said:
Monster?...how much torsion ?...have you compared any of it compared to stock or others?

I have no problem with any of the springs out there, and I like Lonn, and his spring probably works fine. I've certainly never said any different. There is no need to try to discredit anything and get all defensive about anything just because you helped to develop a spring...thats all fine. The spring you have is probably working good for you...you have proven it for sure, and I assume it is working good for others.

So i recently came on here...I do some reading, and it seems a few have to use a different torsion setting with it...so what?...adjust it. It doesnt mean it is not any good and I'm certainly not saying so.
Breath man.
life is short
Click to expand...
Not sure where all that is coming from....??

But I may be the only one to actually check the fish scale, and there is NO WAY the torsional value of the b/o Dalton is a monster at all...its actually quite light at 70 degrees(my scale showed 14psi avgr).

In direct comparison, the ORANGE TP was much much more, I did not measure it yet in the same manner, but when one spring goes in with ease, and the other is barely even doable with one person, you sure know one is alot more torsional pressure then the other.

Im an unbiased clutch tuner, and just stating what I KNOW to be true.

IMO, the TP orange MUST BE INSTALLED AT A LESSER degree then was originally stated to install it at. We need to say this so newbies dont use 60 or even 50....If I ran the TP orange I would be using a fish scale to check it when installed.

Im not sure if these springs may have come in with diff torsional rates then Terry originally wanted? Or did that amount of backpressure simply work better where they tested on asphalt I dont know. But it seems from other thread guys are doing very well now with far less twist, having less heat and more MPH. ;)

If noone wants to check it with their own fish scale, I will certainly take mine all apart again and do it...But I would say 40 degrees is more like where they should be at.

I think both springs will work very well, but both will be set at much different degrees, and everyone needs to know this. Nothing wrong with that, and Terry is doing a great job getting the new "twist" out to everyone here. As long as guys come on here and see it and make the changes they should be fine.

As for the Dalton B/O.....I was told before mine arrived where to set it at, and why it should be set there. And it came in at 14psi on my fishscale when checking it like a DOO. Which I now will be checking upon every helix/spring change like I do with the doos.

Dan
 
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ROCKERDAN said:
Not sure where all this is coming from....

But I may be the only one to actually check the fish scale, and there is NO WAY the torsional value of the b/o Dalton is a monster at all...its actually quite light at 70 degrees(my scale showed 14psi avgr).

In direct comparison, the ORANGE TP was much much more, I did not measure it yet in the same manner, but when one spring goes in with ease, and the other is barely even doable with one person, you sure know one is alot more torsional pressure then the other.

Im an unbiased clutch tuner, and just stating what I KNOW to be true.

IMO, the TP orange MUST BE INSTALLED AT A LESSER degree then was stated to install it at. We need to say this so newbies dont use 60 or even 50....If I ran the TP orange I would be using a fish scale to check it when installed.

If noone wants to check it with their own fish scale, I will certainly take mine all apart again and do it...But I would say 40 degree is more like where they should be at.

Dan
Click to expand...

Hey Dan since the riding sucks why don't you put the TP orange at 3-3 like we had originally installed them and measure it with your scale? I know there are many here who would love to see your findings. Remember you are our go to guy when it comes to this stuff so you have a responsibility!:tg:
 
XP123 said:
Hey Dan since the riding sucks why don't you put the TP orange at 3-3 like we had originally installed them and measure it with your scale? I know there are many here who would love to see your findings. Remember you are our go to guy when it comes to this stuff so you have a responsibility!:tg:
Click to expand...
LOL.....I hear ya brother.

I am kicking myself now.....

When I got the B/O last week, I had already taken apart my secondary after the blown belt....I had it all on bench as I was cleaning things ect....

So when the B/O and 39/35 helix arrived from Dalton, I was anxious to slap it together. But with all the talk of twist rates and knowing how difficult it was for me to install my TP Orange(which is typically easy to do on YAMs for one guy), I thought I would love to know the fish scale reading of my new B/O since I have way more yrs in DOO clutching world and that is the norm when setting up a DOO torsional secondary.

So this is how it went down, and so I now have it all installed and just waiting for rollers to slap primary back together and test on the lake.

Dan
 
ROCKERDAN said:
LOL.....I hear ya brother.

I am kicking myself now.....

When I got the B/O last week, I had already taken apart my secondary after the blown belt....I had it all on bench as I was cleaning things ect....

So when the B/O and 39/35 helix arrived from Dalton, I was anxious to slap it together. But with all the talk of twist rates and knowing how difficult it was for me to install my TP Orange(which is typically easy to do on YAMs for one guy), I thought I would love to know the fish scale reading of my new B/O since I have way more yrs in DOO clutching world and that is the norm when setting up a DOO torsional secondary.

So this is how it went down, and so I now have it all installed and just waiting for rollers to slap primary back together and test on the lake.

Dan
Click to expand...



Sounds like you need to hit the gym with this down time Dan!! That orange spring will be the death of ya!

gym.png
 
Pm me a price shipped to T6w2v3 Edmonton Alberta
 
NOS-PRO said:
That Dalton spring is 3.937 free length where the TP orange is .537 less. That's more side pressure with the Dalton..... The stock spring is .800 shorter length than the Dalton spring.

Also, the Dalton spring is 43 lbs. more load at 2.52 than the TP orange spring. Dalton is 53 lbs. more load than stock. The TP orange is only 10 different.

Got the specifications on all 3 springs yesterday from Lonn.


I agree with all the differences in clutch setups. @shagman and myself are the creators of the TP orange spring and testing was done on asphalt, grass, trail, off-trail and was tested on a bunch of sleds from stock to 285 horse big turbo setups. Did we try all clutching setups? No, I wish I was being paid to do all these tests, but I'm not.

I believe that what Dale has mentioned in his other post is that the more flatter/heavier profile weights are keeping the primary forced in full shift mode and the secondary is fighting to bring it back. Adding more side pressure isn't going to help in this situation. IMO, from reading all the posts, the heavier weights are what is blowing belts more often.

Lots of good info right now in threads about clutching. But there is some bad/wrong info also. Compared to the Dalton black/orange spring.... the true "Monster" spring is the Dalton spring by what I see in black and white.
Click to expand...
Thank you Terry. I was saying this all along. I will say the weight profile is a major player here. We talked about what I found and I ran today again and CONFIRMED my thoughts with you as I ran a Cat yellow secondary spring. Diff. Tangs and such but it was Better then the Dalton B/O. BUT still just a tad bit to much compression. Going back to the "crappy soft stock spring". Lol. That's a joke.
 
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ROCKERDAN said:
LOL.....I hear ya brother.

I am kicking myself now.....

When I got the B/O last week, I had already taken apart my secondary after the blown belt....I had it all on bench as I was cleaning things ect....

So when the B/O and 39/35 helix arrived from Dalton, I was anxious to slap it together. But with all the talk of twist rates and knowing how difficult it was for me to install my TP Orange(which is typically easy to do on YAMs for one guy), I thought I would love to know the fish scale reading of my new B/O since I have way more yrs in DOO clutching world and that is the norm when setting up a DOO torsional secondary.

So this is how it went down, and so I now have it all installed and just waiting for rollers to slap primary back together and test on the lake.

Dan
Click to expand...
18-21 lbs always seems to be the sweet spot .
 
Second year with this Yamaha roller clutch. Three roller. Keep a open mind about springs in this secondary. The proof is in the pudding. And for me it was all over my secondary. The stocker is NOT that bad. I have posted in other spots with my thoughts and they go against clutching 101 somewhat. Im out for a bit.
 
XP123 said:
Thanks Dale for this info! I have your B/O spring along with the TP Orange and my head is spinning right now with all the different info coming from all directions. I would love to see the exact differences between these two springs based on fact not just what guys speculate or assume. I do know that my own testing using my hands after a long pull tells me the Dalton runs cooler than the TP. That is with the TP set at 3-3 and Dalton 6-1. The only problem with my take is I have no real factual info on this and there may be other factors involved with my findings. I tested on the same track but on different days and in different conditions. I can't wait to see your results between these two springs.
Click to expand...

sure thing.
Actually a customer had sent one of the orange ones here the other day, I just havent had time to finish testing it. I will and let you know since we seem to be getting emails with the same question
 
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