sled weights

[74Nitro]

If you find it better with weight on the back I'd think you need to recalibrate the suspension(springs, shocks).
To date, I've never seen any sled setup for snocross, cross country or oval racing that mounted the fuel tank up high at the back of the sled.....

 

[1nc 2000]

None of those have a heavy 4stroke turbo up front either.
Well I set my sleds up for the rough trails because thats what we have when everyone in the Midwest comes to ride where I live and ride.
Racing is completely different, I agree.
Track lube tanks are low and aft to balance out for oval racing.

 

[KnappAttack]

All I can say is the Doo guys are really big time butt hurt and bent outta shape about ST and the weights on their prized Doos over at DooTalk. They are all full of conspiracy theory's and excuses over there. OMG..... One guy went so far as to say the Winder cant be off the ground fully. LOL!

I have all I can doo to keep from stirring the pot over there.....

 

[74Nitro]

All I can say is the Doo guys are really big time butt hurt and bent outta shape about ST and the weights on their prized Doos over at DooTalk. They are all full of conspiracy theory's and excuses over there. OMG..... One guy went so far as to say the Winder cant be off the ground fully. LOL!

I have all I can doo to keep from stirring the pot over there.....

All I can say is the Doo guys are really big time butt hurt and bent outta shape about ST and the weights on their prized Doos over at DooTalk. They are all full of conspiracy theory's and excuses over there. OMG..... One guy went so far as to say the Winder cant be off the ground fully. LOL!

I have all I can doo to keep from stirring the pot over there.....

What's the thread called?

 

[Fast Lane]

If I owned a Doo and saw those weights I would be upset. They are quiet a bit heavier than advertised. Their light weight was a selling feature. As I said previously a Yamaha dealer told me a Sidewinder 137" was 650 pounds empty so I find ST weights interesting. I'm sure most people here with Sidewinders probably thought 650 pounds is probably a pretty close estimate before fuel.

 

[1nc 2000]

2017 sidewinder xtx le 582 lbs dry weight.
This is with a backcountry 1.75 137 track.
If one was to look in the frequently asked questions section the spec sheets that came with the sleds are posted their.
So the weight looks accurate to me.

 

[fxnytrortxkid]

If I owned a Doo and saw those weights I would be upset. They are quiet a bit heavier than advertised. Their light weight was a selling feature. As I said previously a Yamaha dealer told me a Sidewinder 137" was 650 pounds empty so I find ST weights interesting. I'm sure most people here with Sidewinders probably thought 650 pounds is probably a pretty close estimate before fuel.

Nope always knew 650+- 20lbs was the weight depending on model. Many many people posted photos of weighing them.

And as far as the weight on tunnel I agree. If you wanna test this take case of water and put it in front of your shopping cart. Then try it in the back of the cart. You’re just trying to move center of mass back farther. The only negative to the package as far as I’ve found is purely the balance point. By adding weight to rear it will help, not ideal way to do it but only option since front is as light as it can get.

 

[Turboflash]

2017 TCat 137" w 2 gallons of gas in it. Just picked up from dealer. Completely stock. No studs.

 

[earthling]

Nope always knew 650+- 20lbs was the weight depending on model. Many many people posted photos of weighing them.

And as far as the weight on tunnel I agree. If you wanna test this take case of water and put it in front of your shopping cart. Then try it in the back of the cart. You’re just trying to move center of mass back farther. The only negative to the package as far as I’ve found is purely the balance point. By adding weight to rear it will help, not ideal way to do it but only option since front is as light as it can get.

A shopping cart has completely different geometry which is why it acts the way it does. You don't steer a shopping cart from the front, you steer it by sweeping the front end (twisting around the rear). A better analogy is a motorcycle. When you add weight on the back of a bike you feel it instantly and its a negative. I read 1inc 2000s comment about adding weight to the back as making it better at handling bumps and its true that a bit more weight will act to overcome the preload if it is on the stiffer side (or one is a lighter rider).

When you get on the sled, you are offsetting that nose heavy weight. As you sit the weight bias becomes rearward (with no additional weight), thats why you have to get up on the plastic to get the sled to turn well. This is true to some extent for any vehicle. Its why motorcycle track riders trail brake. You want to keep as much weight on the front end as possible while cornering without having the rear wash out (oversteer).

Balance is about your ability as a rider to shift the bias point forward or backward. Mass centralization is the notion that the closer the weight is to you, the easier it is to manage that pivot point. Its like sitting exactly in the center over the fulcrum (pivot) of a teeter-totter where it would be easy to bias weight towards either end. In the case of the winder, you are sitting slightly off center (behind in our case) the pivot point so you have to lean further to the light side to get your end to come up, on the winder, that means you are up on the plastic when turning hard. Any more weight on the back and you have to somehow compensate by lowering the front end or working harder in corners. Not everyone likes to rail corners but adding weight to the rear is only going to make it harder to control in a corner.

This is a video of the weight distribution of a winder using high quality 4 corner scales and shows weight bias with/without rider.

 

[1nc 2000]

Have you tried adding weight to the rear of the sled? Lots of weight up front.

 

[1nc 2000]

A shopping cart has completely different geometry which is why it acts the way it does. You don't steer a shopping cart from the front, you steer it by sweeping the front end (twisting around the rear). A better analogy is a motorcycle. When you add weight on the back of a bike you feel it instantly and its a negative. I read 1inc 2000s comment about adding weight to the back as making it better at handling bumps and its true that a bit more weight will act to overcome the preload if it is on the stiffer side (or one is a lighter rider).

When you get on the sled, you are offsetting that nose heavy weight. As you sit the weight bias becomes rearward (with no additional weight), thats why you have to get up on the plastic to get the sled to turn well. This is true to some extent for any vehicle. Its why motorcycle track riders trail brake. You want to keep as much weight on the front end as possible while cornering without having the rear wash out (oversteer).

Balance is about your ability as a rider to shift the bias point forward or backward. Mass centralization is the notion that the closer the weight is to you, the easier it is to manage that pivot point. Its like sitting exactly in the center over the fulcrum (pivot) of a teeter-totter where it would be easy to bias weight towards either end. In the case of the winder, you are sitting slightly off center (behind in our case) the pivot point so you have to lean further to the light side to get your end to come up, on the winder, that means you are up on the plastic when turning hard. Any more weight on the back and you have to somehow compensate by lowering the front end or working harder in corners. Not everyone likes to rail corners but adding weight to the rear is only going to make it harder to control in a corner.

This is a video of the weight distribution of a winder using high quality 4 corner scales and shows weight bias with/without rider.

Did you set up your front springs like you are promoting in this video?
How did that work for you?
You act like a washed up engineer that stold everyone else's ideas but never brought any of your own to the table!

 

[earthling]

Did you set up your front springs like you are promoting in this video?
How did that work for you?

Not my video, and no I didn't. I get where he was going but you cannot simply pre-load one side like that without consequences.
For the purpose of a weight balance discussion, it has little bearing as he was attempting to solve a left/right balance problem and we are talking about front/rear which the video clearly shows and makes perfect sense for the vast majority of riders.

 

[earthling]

Have you tried adding weight to the rear of the sled? Lots of weight up front.

You, and every other rider, is the single biggest influence on weight distribution. What matters is dynamic weight including the rider, not static balance..

 

[1nc 2000]

You crack me up earthling.
Why would you share such garbage video.
Can't you find any better snowmobile content on the internet to share.

 

[74Nitro]

You crack me up.
Why would you share such garbage video.
Can't you find any better snowmobile content on the internet to share.

Like Supertrax....hahahaha