danq
Expert
OK here is another reason the sabotage theory doesn't work. Sleds ran fine when we parked them. so there had to be good gas in the lines then.
That is the gas that would have started the sled 12 days later. If it was sabotaged fuel, they would have started and then fouled out after the start.
I think combination of condesation in the trailer from melted snow off the suspension and carbon is to blame...Condensation in the trailer might explain the water in the gas tank, (they were basically empty when we parked them) and the "rust" on the intake valves. However, I can leave my cars out in the rain and they start without any "issues".
That is the gas that would have started the sled 12 days later. If it was sabotaged fuel, they would have started and then fouled out after the start.
I think combination of condesation in the trailer from melted snow off the suspension and carbon is to blame...Condensation in the trailer might explain the water in the gas tank, (they were basically empty when we parked them) and the "rust" on the intake valves. However, I can leave my cars out in the rain and they start without any "issues".
craze1cars
VIP Member
Dang...this whole thing is still weird and seems to be totally unanswered. So now they're throwing chemicals into an engine blindly based on their theory, and they haven't even pulled a head to inspect the valves and piston tops to prove what is wrong, if anything is wrong at all.
I guess if the sleds end up running fine next year after all this, more power to ya, especially since it sounds like it's all coming out of your pocket instead of Yamaha's. But if you really think there's internal engine damage, or rust on the valves, and if compression numbers are still low, I'd strongly urge a head removal and inspection to determine the problem. As I said back on page two, that is the ONLY way to figure out the truth here.
So far we're into our 5th page here of nothing but guesses and theories, and not even you nor your dealer has any firm answer on what is/was wrong with the engine, if anything at all.
For what it's worth, I've preached for years about the damages caused by storing sleds in enclosed trailers that are parked outside all summer long, especially if the sun beats on them. There's nothing like daily 50+ degree temperature swings for months on end to really screw things up and cause condensation and corrosion. Similar things can happen in big metal farm buildings that are uninsulated and not climate controlled. Sadly, such places are many people's only feasible options for storage. But your situation occcurring in only 12 days? That still is very fishy to me.
I just hope for your sake it was a fluke no-start because a little condensate got sucked into the fuel lines. But if there's actual internal engine damage as the dealer seems to be guessing, it won't fix itself without a look-see inside there...which of course will cost more money...
I'm sincerely sorry for your troubles...it really does suck when things like this happen.
I guess if the sleds end up running fine next year after all this, more power to ya, especially since it sounds like it's all coming out of your pocket instead of Yamaha's. But if you really think there's internal engine damage, or rust on the valves, and if compression numbers are still low, I'd strongly urge a head removal and inspection to determine the problem. As I said back on page two, that is the ONLY way to figure out the truth here.
So far we're into our 5th page here of nothing but guesses and theories, and not even you nor your dealer has any firm answer on what is/was wrong with the engine, if anything at all.
For what it's worth, I've preached for years about the damages caused by storing sleds in enclosed trailers that are parked outside all summer long, especially if the sun beats on them. There's nothing like daily 50+ degree temperature swings for months on end to really screw things up and cause condensation and corrosion. Similar things can happen in big metal farm buildings that are uninsulated and not climate controlled. Sadly, such places are many people's only feasible options for storage. But your situation occcurring in only 12 days? That still is very fishy to me.
I just hope for your sake it was a fluke no-start because a little condensate got sucked into the fuel lines. But if there's actual internal engine damage as the dealer seems to be guessing, it won't fix itself without a look-see inside there...which of course will cost more money...
I'm sincerely sorry for your troubles...it really does suck when things like this happen.
Bad Gas. condensation in the tank from sitting mixed with moisture already in the gas.
An Engine will do funny things when it doesnt like the gas. Also make it sound like it dont have compression when it wont ignite the fuel.
Bet your engine is just perfectly fine. And also bet your valves are fine and would also bet if you pulled your head your valves dont have much build up at all.
Well unless you keep it under 30mph and have piles of miles of miles on it.
An Engine will do funny things when it doesnt like the gas. Also make it sound like it dont have compression when it wont ignite the fuel.
Bet your engine is just perfectly fine. And also bet your valves are fine and would also bet if you pulled your head your valves dont have much build up at all.
Well unless you keep it under 30mph and have piles of miles of miles on it.
gsxr
TY 4 Stroke Master
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Your dealer is full of s****t , no carbon , BS , rings did not stick , valves will not rust , BS ,
CALL THE YAMAHA REP , YOUR DEALER IS SCREWING YOU !!!!!!
We all have had these sleds in trailers , etc , BS!!!!!
CALL THE YAMAHA REP , YOUR DEALER IS SCREWING YOU !!!!!!
We all have had these sleds in trailers , etc , BS!!!!!
gsxr said:
We have a winner!!! Same way i feel BIG TIME!!!!!!!!
Tom-RX1
Expert
when the engine is shut off only 1 intake valve can be open . how did the rest get damaged.
Tom-RX1
Tom-RX1
danq
Expert
Last update. Some good news. Yamaha is going to cover the cost of repair. They said the compression could improve with continued use of "ring free", but 150 psi is "fine". No expected damage to the valves.
I'm not sure what else I expected them to do, but I'm sure glad I have an extended warranty on these sleds now! Mostly, I'm disapointed that I feel like I can't trust these sleds in the future. I'll forever wonder if there is valve damage that is going to manifest itself someday. I never felt an extended warranty was needed on my yamaha 2 stroke, but I do think they are REQUIRED on a 4 stroke.
Let me update the lessons learned
Lessons learned about injected Yamaha 4 strokes:
1) Don't store the sleds in a trailer outside when suspension has snow on it
2) Fog the valves so they don't rust if going to sit for more than a week
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty.
I'm not sure what else I expected them to do, but I'm sure glad I have an extended warranty on these sleds now! Mostly, I'm disapointed that I feel like I can't trust these sleds in the future. I'll forever wonder if there is valve damage that is going to manifest itself someday. I never felt an extended warranty was needed on my yamaha 2 stroke, but I do think they are REQUIRED on a 4 stroke.
Let me update the lessons learned
Lessons learned about injected Yamaha 4 strokes:
1) Don't store the sleds in a trailer outside when suspension has snow on it
2) Fog the valves so they don't rust if going to sit for more than a week
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty.
Sorry you feel this way but you are way off on a lot of things buddy!
Later Skydog
Later Skydog
danq
Expert
way off on what exactly? slydog?
2) Fog the valves so they don't rust if going to sit for more than a week
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty.
All of these for starters. Sorry but tons of stuff on this dont add up! I am out-----
Skydog
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty.
All of these for starters. Sorry but tons of stuff on this dont add up! I am out-----
Skydog
danq
Expert
Tell me about it. I've NEVER had a 4 stroke lose compression from a stuck valve. All I can pass along is what I've been told by the dealer and yamaha.
RTX
TY 4 Stroke God
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2006 apex rtx
Dang
in my opinion you NEED to find a different dealer for future repairs/service.
Here is what i think happened.
I think they gave your sleds to an inexperienced mechanic who spent all day working on them with no results. when a qualified mechanic actually got to look at the sleds and got them running, they(the dealer) had wasted a day's worth of time. the dealer is in business to make money. they made up a bs story and billed you for the job knowing dam well that they could never explain this mess to yamaha and get warranty coverage. unfortunately you ended up on the losing end.
Again this is all just my opinion but i would seriously look for another dealer.
in my opinion you NEED to find a different dealer for future repairs/service.
Here is what i think happened.
I think they gave your sleds to an inexperienced mechanic who spent all day working on them with no results. when a qualified mechanic actually got to look at the sleds and got them running, they(the dealer) had wasted a day's worth of time. the dealer is in business to make money. they made up a bs story and billed you for the job knowing dam well that they could never explain this mess to yamaha and get warranty coverage. unfortunately you ended up on the losing end.
Again this is all just my opinion but i would seriously look for another dealer.
Iceman57
TY 4 Stroke Guru
danq said:
If the compression came back then a valve had to have been stuck open. The valve didn't have to be stuck open very far to loose compression. That’s the only explanation besides a ring, and in that case the sled would still be in the same condition or in the shop getting new guts.
Na bad gage seen it tons of times gages all over the place.
Iceman57
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Skydog said:
danq said:
That happened before they were even taken in to the dealer, doubt it was a bad guage!!!!!!!! :ORC
