danq
Expert
I don't "like" the story, but its about the only thing that makes sense. When the sleds wouldn't start I could tell the starter wasn't working against much compression. It spun too easy. This was confirmed by the dealer that measured 55 psi when the sleds came in. (I'm sorry I don't think I mentioned this in previous posts) After he pulled the air box out, lubed up/cleaned the valve stems thru the intakes, he got them started with the help of some fogging oil to bring up the compression.
After they started he said they blew out some carbon and obviously smoked.
I've heard disagreement with this theory but no alternate theories that describe the problem. or describe why they are running now.
Please lets not get personal.
After they started he said they blew out some carbon and obviously smoked.
I've heard disagreement with this theory but no alternate theories that describe the problem. or describe why they are running now.
Please lets not get personal.
I'd look for a new dealer. there is no way all 4 cylinders could have a valve stuck open at the same time from sitting on the sled. if 1 jugs was 55 and the rest where 150, ok thats a good theroy. For all 4 to have a valve stuck they would of had to be something else wrong that they all had 1 open. Maxdlx
danq
Expert
Taking it to another dealer now is a waste of time. Sleds are running so there is no way to "reproduce" the original situation.
Dasher
Veteran
I have just reviewed an article from Yamaha in their TECH EXCHANGE to dealers. In it, it states that many of the 4-strokes now incorporate an auto-decompression mechanism that lowers the combustion chamber pressures while cranking the engine, allowing for easier starting. Because of this mechanism, it is difficult to get accurate compression readings using traditional compression testing procedures.
The most accurate way to test the condition of a 4-stroke engine is to perform a leakdown test which can check the condition of the entire combustion chamber, including piston rings, valves, head gasket, and even the combustion chamber itself.
I believe it is quite possible that the dealer did a traditional compression test (which would result in 55psi in all cylinders) and made some inaccurate assumptions in his diagnosis.
Dave
The most accurate way to test the condition of a 4-stroke engine is to perform a leakdown test which can check the condition of the entire combustion chamber, including piston rings, valves, head gasket, and even the combustion chamber itself.
I believe it is quite possible that the dealer did a traditional compression test (which would result in 55psi in all cylinders) and made some inaccurate assumptions in his diagnosis.
Dave
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Traditional compression test on these motors is still a fine way to check em. Mine is 150 on all 4 with my gauge cold motor throttle closed.
Iceman57
TY 4 Stroke Guru
danq said:
I've seen many valves that were either stuck or wouldn’t close all the way. And becasue of my experience in this area I believe that the valves most likely caused the problem with your sled.
danq
Expert
Yamaha hasn't paid up yet
Another update of this saga. Back in April I was told they would cover the repair. Having not seen any credit on my card, I started looking into it again. Called customer relations and now they tell me "THEY NEVER SAID THEY WOULD COVER IT"!
After more discussions they said they would cover $350 afterall. Better than nothing, but not what they committed to in April.
So another lesson learned when dealing with Yamaha. Make sure you get a written copy of any agreements.
I'm so mad, I can hardly sit still.
Another update of this saga. Back in April I was told they would cover the repair. Having not seen any credit on my card, I started looking into it again. Called customer relations and now they tell me "THEY NEVER SAID THEY WOULD COVER IT"!
After more discussions they said they would cover $350 afterall. Better than nothing, but not what they committed to in April.
So another lesson learned when dealing with Yamaha. Make sure you get a written copy of any agreements.
I'm so mad, I can hardly sit still.
danq
Expert
Lessons learned
Lets recap:
Lessons learned about injected Yamaha 4 strokes:
1) Don't store the sleds in a trailer outside when suspension has snow on it
2) Fog the valves so they don't rust if going to sit for more than a week in any humidity.
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the intake side of the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty
7) Get all agreements with Customer Relations in writing.
8) An extended warranty probably isn't going to cover stuck valves as Yamaha doesn't consider this a "defect".
Lets recap:
Lessons learned about injected Yamaha 4 strokes:
1) Don't store the sleds in a trailer outside when suspension has snow on it
2) Fog the valves so they don't rust if going to sit for more than a week in any humidity.
3) Run ring free on a regular basis.
4) Run fuel drier additives on a regular basis.
5) Consider another sled manufacturer that uses stainless valves and can design a fuel injection system that doesn't carbon up the intake side of the valve train under normal operation.
6) Don't buy a yamaha 4 stroke unless it has an extended warranty
7) Get all agreements with Customer Relations in writing.
8) An extended warranty probably isn't going to cover stuck valves as Yamaha doesn't consider this a "defect".
RTX
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 1,796
- Location
- massachusetts / maine
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 viper rtx
2006 apex rtx
If I had to do a recap on this i would start with
1 ride sled
2 put away how ever you normally do.
3 if you encounter any starting issues bring the sled to a new deaer not the last guy that ripped you off.
Thats just my plan
1 ride sled
2 put away how ever you normally do.
3 if you encounter any starting issues bring the sled to a new deaer not the last guy that ripped you off.
Thats just my plan
ecopter
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I'm with RTX. It's a machine capable of operating in extreme conditions. If I had to keep a list of do's and don't do's, I don't think I would be a snowmobiler.
The only things I follow on your list is a one time summerized fog and the extended warranty.
Personally, I think you're dealing with someone who was just interested in the initial sale. Seek help elsewhere.
Jon
The only things I follow on your list is a one time summerized fog and the extended warranty.
Personally, I think you're dealing with someone who was just interested in the initial sale. Seek help elsewhere.
Jon
danq
Expert
This is not a dealer problem. This is a problem with the design of the sled. It's not the dealers fault the engine had no compression after it sat for a week or so after the last ride and wouldn't start. It's not a matter of "opinion" that the sled had low compression, it was measured by the dealer and I could feel it when trying to start the sled.
Now if there is some other explanation for low compression on a sled that was missed I might agree with the last 2 posts. I don't think the apex has some kind of compression release on start up, does it?
My lessons learned is intended to keep others from having the same thing happen to them. Don't believe me? Then feel free to leave your sled parked on your trailer after your last ride. You say it's a one in a million problem? It happened on two sleds. So its consistent.
Now if there is some other explanation for low compression on a sled that was missed I might agree with the last 2 posts. I don't think the apex has some kind of compression release on start up, does it?
My lessons learned is intended to keep others from having the same thing happen to them. Don't believe me? Then feel free to leave your sled parked on your trailer after your last ride. You say it's a one in a million problem? It happened on two sleds. So its consistent.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Again, try to listen. Its a BAD DEALER.
It is NOT POSSIBLE for at least one valve in all 8 cylinders of your two sleds to suddenly stick simultaneously. It doesn't happen EVER. Maybe ONE valve between the two sleds, but definitely NOT 8+.
This is NOT 1 in a million, it is IMPOSSIBLE.
You have a BAD DEALER.
It is NOT POSSIBLE for at least one valve in all 8 cylinders of your two sleds to suddenly stick simultaneously. It doesn't happen EVER. Maybe ONE valve between the two sleds, but definitely NOT 8+.
This is NOT 1 in a million, it is IMPOSSIBLE.
You have a BAD DEALER.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Also, pay close attention to this;
It hasn't happened to anyone else. That means that there's nothing wrong with the design of the valves. That means that it was something ELSE.
It hasn't happened to anyone else. That means that there's nothing wrong with the design of the valves. That means that it was something ELSE.
RTX you have summed this up perfectly. Sometimes it is hard to accept that you have been given bad information and ripped off by the same person.
i had the same problem on mine and the wifes 06 apex rtx. came home from da up and the sleds sat on the trailer for 6 days before i got to clean them up. motor spun like there was no compression. held the throttle wide open, and both sleds eventually started. didn't have a problem after that. 4000 miles on one 2300 on the other. greatest sleds i have ever owned. they all have little problems. it's a machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
