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Snow Tech Long Term Test Sleds Nytro XTX

RunninRX1 said:
My Attak is like Pam Anderson, if you have ever seen her without makeup and whatnot.. um.. I have..yeah no thanks. Slap on some Lipstick and Rouge (I.E. new skis, better track, better idlers, bar risers..) and whoo hoo.. Assume the position woman!
Don't get me wrong, I like my 4 strokes. It's why I have 3 of them. I'd have 4 if Yamaha would have added 20HP to the 2010 Apex or the Nytro.

I don't care for 2 strokes one bit. My SRX and SXR collect dust and wasp nests. But, I think back to that Rev XP rental sled. Man, what a riot on the trails that thing was. Ok.. so I gotta buy oil. Lets see..$400 for a new set of ski's is 10 gallons of oil. New track is over 12 gallons of oil. Bunch of other junk to make it handle, turn, take bumps, not freeze my hands, etc.. That's an awful lot of oil I could have bought and no parts to make that sled work for me. I paid $8600 for the thing brand new. Added another $2000+ JUST to make it work right.
So now I paid over "$10K" for something I'm pretty happy with. Thinking back.. for that much.. was there something better right out of the box? Possibly but I did not look. I wanted a 4 stroke. Is there now? I think there just might be.

I was over at the dealership waiting for somebody and they had one of them new turbo Cats there so I sat on it. My buddy comes out and starts showing me everything the seat and bars do. Wow.. you mean I don't have to buy pivoting risers or put extra foam in my seat? Nope. I think it's ugly as sin, but it sure had some cool features and the HP surely is tempting. I just can't get over how it looks. Like when I buy a car..the interior design is just as, if not more important than the exterior. I'm thinking, when I am driving the car for hours at a time.. what am I looking at? The inside or the outside? On a sled, I can see the outside so the ugly overrules the HP on the Cat for me.

I posted warranty dollars from this dealership awhile back for the 1st few months of this year. Ski Doo was WAY out in front with a huge amount. Mainly the 2 stroke engines blowing up.
I saw them again last week.. still Ski Doo is by far the OEM with the most claims (still 2 stroke engines breaking).
What I also saw is Yamaha IS NOT #4.. Arctic Cat is.. and by quite a bit. Either Cat has really stepped up their game (most likely due to more 4 stroke sales) or Yamaha is slipping on the quality front. We didn't have enough time to come to a conclusion as to why the numbers are what they are.
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Sales figures between Warranty #2,#3 and #4 are fairly close so it's not due to volume. Ski Doo sells more, but it's clear the increase in volume over the other 3 does not warrant the massive amount of warranty claims.

I've delt with magazines and doing articles, advertising and such for about 20 years. I know their game. You DO have the grease the palm as they say, but there is always some truth in reviews (good or bad). They can only go so far 'lying' (well.. maybe that's a bit too harsh a word) before an advertiser gets pissed and pulls dollars. They live off the ads, not the subscriptions so editorial copy is very important to them.
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I'll bet the reason cat is fourth is they offer the least amount and least comprenhensive warranties...and I bet yam has the second most warranties and definately the most comprehensive...so details adjusted ....I know yam is the best bet here...
as to the gallons of oil and the equal dollars spent to get the yam to do what the two stroke does out of the box...once that oil is burnt...there's no remaining value like my add on parts..many I can remove and use them again or sell them at some portion of the original investment...

I also agree the snowtech boys are trail breakers...and bleed 2 stroke oil...especially green camp oil
 

journeyman said:
Another thing I was thinking. Someone mentioned the more they rode their Nytro the better they got at making it handle........hence getting used to it. That brings us back to not putting any miles on the Yamaha test sleds. Now think about Snow Tech's test riders. Assume none of them are Yamaha riders (which you can bet on). Naturally they are going to pick their brand to put the most miles on. Just another thought.
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I think your onto something here, but possibly viewing it the wrong way.
I used to ride a SRX. Highly modified, about everything you could do to one, I did. F1 car on snow for sure. Worst trail sled ever if you ran over 3 snow flakes stacked on top of each other. But I could hop off it and get on a F7 and ride it like I stole it even though I had never even sat on one before and they are radically different sleds.
I get my 1st RX1.. the 05 with the mono, holy hell is this thing 'different' to ride. Took awhile to get used to it. I get my Attak, it's different from the RX1 I am so now familiar with. I get back on the RX1 occasionally and its back to school again to relearn. Fastforward to the rental Rev XP. I had only sat on one at a dealership, but riding this sled was like second nature. No learning curve, no nothing. I could have used a rubber band to hold the throttle WFO though cuz that's about how I had thing the all day. Motor was a weak POS IMO. Struggled to do 100. Blah!

Now I get on the 09 Nytro.. again.. man.. is this thing a handful. Took a bit to get used to it.. which I actually never really did but I'm sure I could.
I've gotten on 08 Polaris IQ's.. mile or 2 later I'm going like a bat out of hell around every corner and bump. This thing just didn't feel right but it worked pretty darn good. I pushed it to its limits.

So the question is.. why DO you need more time to get used to the Yamahas before you feel confident in the thing vs many other brands? I have no idea but it's real.
Of course all of this greatly depends on your particular riding style. I like to push the machines hard. So I need to know how the thing is going to react to the conditions and what I am forcing it to do. Some respond way better than others for sure.
 
I don't buy the argument that the Snotech test riders would "stick to their brand" and that's why the XTX had no miles on it. If you could ride any sled, why would you ride the brand you normally ride?

I'm not saying they don't have bias toward a favorite brand, but if you gave me a sled from each to ride for the winter, I'd have the fewest amount of miles on my favorite brand.

And as far as the warranty claims, Ski Doo should have about twice as many as everyone else. The last sales numbers I saw, Ski Doo had about 40% of the market, and the others each had around 20%.
 
sj said:
I'll bet the reason cat is fourth is they offer the least amount and least comprenhensive warranties...and I bet yam has the second most warranties and definately the most comprehensive...so details adjusted ....I know yam is the best bet here...
as to the gallons of oil and the equal dollars spent to get the yam to do what the two stroke does out of the box...once that oil is burnt...there's no remaining value like my add on parts..many I can remove and use them again or sell them at some portion of the original investment...

I also agree the snowtech boys are trail breakers...and bleed 2 stroke oil...especially green camp oil
Click to expand...

Yamaha was #3 but valid point. I can find out more details. Personally I have not seen the reliability on my own sleds. Blown RX1 Engine, cracked mono arms, NUMEROUS wheels, cracked rails, tops of shocks rubbed down, fuel pump relay, overheating, cooling fan fell off on the Attak (makes a hell of a racket when it happens) and a few other minor issues.

I only spoke of the 2 stroke XP as that is the only one I rode. If they rented 4 stroke XP's, no oil involved, and I suspect I would have had as much fun. Maybe a tad more as the 4 has more power. Still not enough power for me to go buy one though. Main point was hoping on something else and not having to touch a damn thing and it working to my satisfaction. My bar is set pretty high.

I tend to keep everything I buy and don't sell it but you do have a good point on parts resale. My house looks like a used car/sled/quad/bike/pick something lot :)
 
Oh, don't go the Cat route. I tried the Z! turbo last year and it wasn't such a good year. Stock it couldn't beat my neighbors RX-1 I set up years ago. It left me stranded the first time I took it off the trailer and only went downhill from there. Don't let the Z1 tempt you, you will only be disappointed.


You know, way back in 03 when yamaha flew me out to the rode reports to ride the new 04's, I had plenty of seat time on my 03 RX-1's and absolutely loved them. I made the mistake of, or I should say I had the opportunity to ride all the new equipment. Well the four stroke engine had won me over and I knew every sled I owned from that season on would have to be a four-stroke for reasons we all know about. However, Ski-Doo had THE chassis, ride and ergonomic thing nailed right down with the REV. Of course I didn't say anything at the time being a Yamaha guest rider, but if anyone would have asked, or if I could have voiced my feelings, I would have told every manufacture to pack up all their sleds and don't come back till they can get the ride and handling like the REV. None of the other sleds were worth having in my eyes after ridding the REV. I got on a Ski-Doo every chance I could get at the rode reports that year, I didn't even want to ride the four-stroke after that and I had two at home.

I can relate to the writers of SnowTech. Think about it. They do not pay to ride these sleds. They don't pay to fix them up, they don't even pay for the fuel that runs thru them.

Those of us that have the four-strokes know why we have them, we don't have to justify anything to anybody.

Ease up fellas and quit worrying about what anyone thinks or what the magazines write about your ride. All that matters is what you think and that your happy.
 
Ill make my last point then move on....I agree with mike ...Ive been tempted....very close to buying a z1 turbo ...but knowing cat from my past and riding with ones in my present...no way...then I look at doo...handle great...super lightweight and flickable...but there's only one eingine I trust...the sdi...and one I starting to...the 4 stroke..now when I started really looking at how the machine was put together...I mean really looking....it just scares me...look at the bulkhead (or lack thereof) and their pyramid thingie...seems like the smallest hit in the wrong place and she's coming apart..not to mention ...what will thousands of pounding miles do to this chassis...
now on the 4 stroke it seems beefier...but then when you compare it wet weight to a nytro..it's within 20 or so pounds...the weight thing is gone....
and yes...it seems the consensus is the 4tec rides better...but can be boring at times?
lastly for me....the straw that broke the camels back was the money and warranty advantage...
that 4tec is the closest thing to me with potentially yamaha quality and the doo ride....and honestly if they would have come out with the touted triple throttle body 165 h.p. model my blue blood would have turned yellow (in spite of my concerns and other reasons)
an earlier post...sledfreak posted the guy at yam who's in charge of shock valving should be fired...
I heard skidoo layed a bunch of people off..maybe they could hire a doo suspension engineer!
 
SJ, Do you have a degree in psychology? you just blew my mind, One point that ill touch on that ill give you a big AMEN! is the worst is when you find that hot chick like you said or so she seemed cause i was alil drunk at the time, and she gives you those unwanted gift's and you wake up in the morning pissing razor blades. that really blows and i feel for ya been there done that! jk on a lighter note that was a good post i liked that :-o
 
So how good were the reviews of the sleds with the most miles?

I see the Poo Switchback with 3200 miles!

They had nothing bad to say about them at all??

Just wondering if the miles really tell the whole story.
 
madthumper said:
I'm not saying they don't have bias toward a favorite brand, but if you gave me a sled from each to ride for the winter, I'd have the fewest amount of miles on my favorite brand
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Well they all had a chance to ride all the sleds. I could care less about brand. Oh OK I kid. I hate how the Cats look and feel. Getting on a twin spar sled feels like I am getting on a 1986 sled that has been kept in really good condition.

Regardless, at the end of the day I am going to ride the sled I have the most fun on more then ones I don't enjoy. So I do find it disconcerting that they only got a few hundred miles before giving up on the XTX.

I hope I'm wrong about the XTX since I have one with 0 miles sitting in my garage.
 
IFlyEm said:
madthumper said:
I'm not saying they don't have bias toward a favorite brand, but if you gave me a sled from each to ride for the winter, I'd have the fewest amount of miles on my favorite brand
Click to expand...

Well they all had a chance to ride all the sleds. I could care less about brand. Oh OK I kid. I hate how the Cats look and feel. Getting on a twin spar sled feels like I am getting on a 1986 sled that has been kept in really good condition.

Regardless, at the end of the day I am going to ride the sled I have the most fun on more then ones I don't enjoy. So I do find it disconcerting that they only got a few hundred miles before giving up on the XTX.

I hope I'm wrong about the XTX since I have one with 0 miles sitting in my garage.
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Me too! mines brand new too...I think it's all relative...like was stated on this thread...they dont even add gas...they just ride...you can bet your bippie...cat, doo and poo ....have hand selected what they ride and set them up right...so I take what they say with a grain...
I keep hearing from others how much fun it is...get the suspension and skis setup right and Im sure they're right..
 
KnappAttack said:
Oh, don't go the Cat route. I tried the Z! turbo last year and it wasn't such a good year. Stock it couldn't beat my neighbors RX-1 I set up years ago. It left me stranded the first time I took it off the trailer and only went downhill from there. Don't let the Z1 tempt you, you will only be disappointed.


You know, way back in 03 when yamaha flew me out to the rode reports to ride the new 04's, I had plenty of seat time on my 03 RX-1's and absolutely loved them. I made the mistake of, or I should say I had the opportunity to ride all the new equipment. Well the four stroke engine had won me over and I knew every sled I owned from that season on would have to be a four-stroke for reasons we all know about. However, Ski-Doo had THE chassis, ride and ergonomic thing nailed right down with the REV. Of course I didn't say anything at the time being a Yamaha guest rider, but if anyone would have asked, or if I could have voiced my feelings, I would have told every manufacture to pack up all their sleds and don't come back till they can get the ride and handling like the REV. None of the other sleds were worth having in my eyes after ridding the REV. I got on a Ski-Doo every chance I could get at the rode reports that year, I didn't even want to ride the four-stroke after that and I had two at home.

I can relate to the writers of SnowTech. Think about it. They do not pay to ride these sleds. They don't pay to fix them up, they don't even pay for the fuel that runs thru them.

Those of us that have the four-strokes know why we have them, we don't have to justify anything to anybody.

Ease up fellas and quit worrying about what anyone thinks or what the magazines write about your ride. All that matters is what you think and that your happy.
Click to expand...

It's funny you mention the 04 sleds Mike. Back in 03 I had a 02 ZR 800 EFI and I was buying a new sled in 04. I had the oportunity to ride a 03 RX1 up in Canada for a few hours that Winter. I loved the engine but I thought the sled rode like crap and it ratcheted badly. The worse part was the owner told me that it took him the whole Winter to dial the ride in so he could enjoy it. I wouldn't have wanted to ride that thing before he "dialed it in". When I got back to the States I rode a Rev for the first time and I was hooked! There was no doubt that my next sled would be my first ever Ski Doo. I owned two Rev's after that and switched to the Apex in 06 because of Ski Doo's crappy 2 stroke engines. I did vow however that if Doo came out with a viable 4 stroke then I would be back riding the best riding and handling sleds on the market again. Then the 1200 came out and for the first time in many years I'm totally satisfied with my sled. Yamaha has a lot of work to do before I will buy another one. They need to fix the way they ride and handle. They also need to drop a few lbs and not by making the fuel tanks smaller so the wet weights look good. I just can't figure out why Cat, Poo and Doo can build a sled that rides and handles great right out of the crate and Yamaha can't. I had to change skis and perform all sorts of adjustments on my wifes Nytro before it was rideable while my 1200 was great right from the crate.
 
let's just end it. The article made me mad too but let's drop it wipe the tears from our face and just wave to all the other brands when we pass them while they are broke down on the trails. That will be way more effective than whining and trying to argue our point with other yamaha lovers. Or let's just keep kicking a dead horse over and over and over and over.
 
Since I have a new one w/Zero miles in my Barn.. It made me a little nervous to read Snow-Tech. What "calibration" changes did the folks make to the shocks/skiis.. I have a pair of Pilots I will try, but what about the shock calibration and this spacer thing?

Coming from a 2004 REV Renegade which I love ( but which would not turn and was a death trap until I put Pilots on it), I wanted a 1200... but the xtra $1500 and non-rebuildable shocks killed the deal... (actually my wife killed the deal!)...

Schoe
 
schoe said:
Since I have a new one w/Zero miles in my Barn.. It made me a little nervous to read Snow-Tech. What "calibration" changes did the folks make to the shocks/skiis.. I have a pair of Pilots I will try, but what about the shock calibration and this spacer thing?

Coming from a 2004 REV Renegade which I love ( but which would not turn and was a death trap until I put Pilots on it), I wanted a 1200... but the xtra $1500 and non-rebuildable shocks killed the deal... (actually my wife killed the deal!)...

Schoe
Click to expand...

howdy near neighbor (maybe)
look at the suspension chart sticky at the top of the nytro forum...
pretty helpful..
I will do similar to what I did to my attak..
loosen the front springs til they are rattle loose..then a couple tighter to not lose them...adjust transfer rods to about 50%..
now the compression and rebound adjustments will need to be on the fly..
the skis ...I will be using something similar...simmons..
 
Not to worry Shoe - there's alot of people that love that sled - includng myself :Rockon: . . . . .plus if you're anything like me - you actually ENJOY the dialing in process. . . .different settings - different conditions - different products. . . ."what if I did this?" kinda stuff. . . .that's when it actually gets FUN and it starts to make your sled - well - your sled.

I know there's gotta be riders out there who just want it set up for the best stock ride. . . . .but for me. . . . .I'd rather be "tweakin" ;)!
 
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