LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
dilligaf said:
Your right, after a five hundred mile day, mine was toast. The problem is that the other sled with me was a 07' Cat F6 with over 12,000 miles on the ticker, motor untouched. That sled faired fine, Nytro, totaled, that's a problem. What good is a motor that can go 20,000+ miles if the chassis is in a pile in the corner of the garage? It's time for them to face the facts and update.
Did you wreck on your Nytro?
Aside from the handling issues with my Nytro, I've not been displeased as the quality of the sled is great. We replaced the lower a-arm bushings with an aftermarket type back in the fall of '07 and they are still holding up. The a-arms bushing were junk and I replaced those with custom made oil lite bushings and they are still 100% tight. I never had a front torque a-arm break because I've got a reinforced model and also make sure my shocks are valvled and working properly. Never had hyfax issues and my idler wheels held up okay. My subframe my have gotten tweaked but I'm not 100% sure. If it is, than it was caused by a wreck where I threw the sled away at over 70 mph in some wind drifts and it cart wheeled once. Fortunately the snow was deep and soft.
Overall it has been a great sled and I'll be using it for a play practice sled this winter. If the ideas work that we came up with here on TY to reduce bump steer, then it will be a much, much better sled.
Aside from the handling issues with my Nytro, I've not been displeased as the quality of the sled is great. We replaced the lower a-arm bushings with an aftermarket type back in the fall of '07 and they are still holding up. The a-arms bushing were junk and I replaced those with custom made oil lite bushings and they are still 100% tight. I never had a front torque a-arm break because I've got a reinforced model and also make sure my shocks are valvled and working properly. Never had hyfax issues and my idler wheels held up okay. My subframe my have gotten tweaked but I'm not 100% sure. If it is, than it was caused by a wreck where I threw the sled away at over 70 mph in some wind drifts and it cart wheeled once. Fortunately the snow was deep and soft.
Overall it has been a great sled and I'll be using it for a play practice sled this winter. If the ideas work that we came up with here on TY to reduce bump steer, then it will be a much, much better sled.
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
No, no wreck, like I said the F6 was right behind me the whole time. Sure there were some large bumps, and no I didn't slow down, but neither did he. I know I'm going to miss the feel of that motor, but the trade offs of frame durability just aren't worth it. The scariest thing is that the oil tank mounts had cracked completely through, meaning the tank was the next to go. No oil, by by engine. The tunnel was cracking at the foot holds, around the rear mounting area, and in front of the rear bumper (a result of ice I would suspect). It even appeared the tunnel was actually separating from the bulkhead as several rivets were sheared, imagine taking a corner and the front of the sled goes right and you on the seat goes straight, ha ha there's a nightmare for you. The toe holds themselves were cracking at the tunnel. Center shock exploded, which then allowed the front of the tunnel to slam and bend at the foot area. The sub-frame they said was slightly bent, not enough to ripple the reinforcement but enough to offset the A-arms. I never hit anything but I also wasn't surprised to hear as I had dropped off of a few road crossings that made me wonder. Ball joints of course completely toast, but Ulmer's A-arm bushings were still tight as can be 
, Y-pipe completely self destructed. The rear scissor and arm of the rear suspension is cracked so bad I can't believe it's still together, or got me home for that matter. Which I have to say, there has only been one time that I didn't make it back under my own power. I hope that remains the same with the new machine.
Before anyone accuses me of abuse/neglect, let me say this, I would completely inspect every moving and non-moving part before each trip. Additionally, before each day I would give it the once over to look for anything that stands out. This sled had all rivets checked/replaced if loose, with the expensive OEM ones by the way. This thing was well looked after and very well taken care of, no with that I rode it hard and never backed down from any trail, but that's what I thought it could take.
It's a good sled for a semi aggressive rider that wants dependability, but push it too hard and it will get expensive quick. I think it's the same reason no one want to race it. The time it takes to make it work, then the cost of maintaining it is just not competitive. Things are going to break, that's the reality of riding. I never expected it to take anything and everything, I just didn't expect this much destruction after one day. I really enjoyed the time on the Nytro, but just couldn't justify getting another, none of the issues have been addressed, it's the same sled I had just more expensive. We'll see if this one fits the purpose better, I don't expect it to be indestructible but I do think it's better fit for the purpose.
Are C.C. racers experiencing the same types of failures?
, Y-pipe completely self destructed. The rear scissor and arm of the rear suspension is cracked so bad I can't believe it's still together, or got me home for that matter. Which I have to say, there has only been one time that I didn't make it back under my own power. I hope that remains the same with the new machine.Before anyone accuses me of abuse/neglect, let me say this, I would completely inspect every moving and non-moving part before each trip. Additionally, before each day I would give it the once over to look for anything that stands out. This sled had all rivets checked/replaced if loose, with the expensive OEM ones by the way. This thing was well looked after and very well taken care of, no with that I rode it hard and never backed down from any trail, but that's what I thought it could take.
It's a good sled for a semi aggressive rider that wants dependability, but push it too hard and it will get expensive quick. I think it's the same reason no one want to race it. The time it takes to make it work, then the cost of maintaining it is just not competitive. Things are going to break, that's the reality of riding. I never expected it to take anything and everything, I just didn't expect this much destruction after one day. I really enjoyed the time on the Nytro, but just couldn't justify getting another, none of the issues have been addressed, it's the same sled I had just more expensive. We'll see if this one fits the purpose better, I don't expect it to be indestructible but I do think it's better fit for the purpose.
Are C.C. racers experiencing the same types of failures?
maxx
Veteran
Try this, bring a 10 year old kid to the nearest Artic Cat dealer, have him stand next to the front bumper and see if he can push it side to side, if he is like my kid he should be able to push the bumper over about 2 inches. I checked, it wasn't loose bolts, just poorly designed and flimsy. I have had a number of Cats over the years, just not durable enough for me, this was done on a 2012 model with the 800 motor. 12000 miles on a cat two stroke is the rare exception from everyone I know, that guy should go buy lotto tickets with that kind of luck.
00-NUKE
Expert
maxx said:
I agree. I had an 2006 F6 Crossfire and the frame started to fall apart after the first 600 miles. The motor only lasted 1,200 miles before it went BOOM. It was completely stock????? And you think Arctic Cat stood behind it - F#$% no, and still under warranty It's a Doo or a Yami for me from here on out!
TRUE STORY: Two weeks out of warranty. I had an aftermarket oil filter on my 2008 Nytro that stuck 2 inches lower than a factory filter. Hit a block of Ice causing my belly pan to gash the filter. 2 miles later was the sound we all know. After fighting my insurance company for a month, it took a Regional Technician from Yamaha Motor Corp. to call my insurance company and tell them that all of the evidence found was directly caused by lack of oil "pressure", not oil quantity. Since there was still 2.25 Qts of oil still in the reservoir. The Yamaha Regional Technician had then informed me that if circumstances would have been different, and the issue was caused by engine failure, that Yamaha would have gladly replaced it. Now THAT is a company that deserves my buisness!
HAPPY ENDING: The insurance company cut me a check for $9,200.00 and I upgraded to a 2011 XTX.
LJ 452 said:
I'm sure some are. I've not broken my Yamaha racing, factory reinforced front torque arm. But, I also make sure my shocks are valved and sprung for my riding style and weight so the suspension is not crashing together when running through the rough. Same thing with the rivets, I check them, replace loose ones and keep ahead of it. I also ride a lot smoother than other guys I know and am respectful of the extra weight the Nytro carries. There are simply things the Nytro cannot do compared to a light weight, limited build, 2-stroke race chassis.
Years ago, a buddy who I race with once made a statement that he could break any sled in 15 minutes just by riding it too hard. By the same token, he said he could take a YZ motocross bike, ride it as hard as he could or dared for 15 minutes and it would not break. Snowmachines are pretty fragile in comparison and the stock valving the Nytro comes with is not good enough for an aggressive rider.
In any case, the Nytro is a trail sled and cannot be ridden as fast or hard as a limited build race sled. In fact, it can't be ridden as hard or fast as any of the current, regular consumer model 600cc, 2-stroke bump sleds. It just doesn't have the handling, ride quality, or stable composure of the competition. That doesn't mean it is a bad sled, it just can't run at the same level. The design is now 5 model years old and is obsolete.
stopdropanroll
TY 4 Stroke Master
LJ 452 said:No, no wreck, like I said the F6 was right behind me the whole time. Sure there were some large bumps, and no I didn't slow down, but neither did he. I know I'm going to miss the feel of that motor, but the trade offs of frame durability just aren't worth it. The scariest thing is that the oil tank mounts had cracked completely through, meaning the tank was the next to go. No oil, by by engine. The tunnel was cracking at the foot holds, around the rear mounting area, and in front of the rear bumper (a result of ice I would suspect). It even appeared the tunnel was actually separating from the bulkhead as several rivets were sheared, imagine taking a corner and the front of the sled goes right and you on the seat goes straight, ha ha there's a nightmare for you. The toe holds themselves were cracking at the tunnel. Center shock exploded, which then allowed the front of the tunnel to slam and bend at the foot area. The sub-frame they said was slightly bent, not enough to ripple the reinforcement but enough to offset the A-arms. I never hit anything but I also wasn't surprised to hear as I had dropped off of a few road crossings that made me wonder. Ball joints of course completely toast, but Ulmer's A-arm bushings were still tight as can be
Before anyone accuses me of abuse/neglect, let me say this, I would completely inspect every moving and non-moving part before each trip. Additionally, before each day I would give it the once over to look for anything that stands out. This sled had all rivets checked/replaced if loose, with the expensive OEM ones by the way. This thing was well looked after and very well taken care of, no with that I rode it hard and never backed down from any trail, but that's what I thought it could take.
It's a good sled for a semi aggressive rider that wants dependability, but push it too hard and it will get expensive quick. I think it's the same reason no one want to race it. The time it takes to make it work, then the cost of maintaining it is just not competitive. Things are going to break, that's the reality of riding. I never expected it to take anything and everything, I just didn't expect this much destruction after one day. I really enjoyed the time on the Nytro, but just couldn't justify getting another, none of the issues have been addressed, it's the same sled I had just more expensive. We'll see if this one fits the purpose better, I don't expect it to be indestructible but I do think it's better fit for the purpose.
Are C.C. racers experiencing the same types of failures?
What are you buying??
dilligaf
Pro
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
Anything Cat pre-07' I wouldn't touch. The twin spar really is a great overall chassis, solid as a rock quite frankly. I work in automotive and we use the same self pierce rivets, honestly I had doubts when he got it, lot's of them. Not one loose rivet period. Of course there have been things that didn't survive but compared to the 2 sleds I've had since his 1, it's held up surprisingly well. The Twin Spar was strong but heavy, now it sounds like they've improved in that department as well.
A.K.: Shocks had $800.00 in to them before the season, C.C. valving. Your assessment of the Nytro is probably the most accurate.
Sheet: New sled is a SnoPro 500 with a 720. Well see, if it works it works. If not, I'll keep looking. I'll be sure to post a comparison at the beginning and an end of year report to see if it made it.
A.K.: Shocks had $800.00 in to them before the season, C.C. valving. Your assessment of the Nytro is probably the most accurate.
Sheet: New sled is a SnoPro 500 with a 720. Well see, if it works it works. If not, I'll keep looking. I'll be sure to post a comparison at the beginning and an end of year report to see if it made it.
The twin spar is a great chassis. It has done really well in the Iron Dog race and offered excellent wind protection. I never considered one because like most guys, I'm a bit brand loyal and Cat never appealed to me, particularly that chassis as it was so fricking ugly. Then I rode a Sno-Pro 600 late last season and wow, I was impressed.
LJ,
I'm not familiar with what you had done to your shocks but after having local dealers charge me good money to "revalve" my shocks and accomplish nothing, I now send them to Carver and they are done right. Still, it takes a lot of testing to figure out what exactly works for you and what works excellent on a course one weekend will not be the hot set up for a race a few weekends later.
The Sno-Pro will be a much more capable sled than the Nytro. You'll immediately notice the lightness when going through the bumps. On the down side, my buddy's Sno-Pro 600 required a lot more maintenance and up keep than the Yamahas he rode in the previous years.
LJ,
I'm not familiar with what you had done to your shocks but after having local dealers charge me good money to "revalve" my shocks and accomplish nothing, I now send them to Carver and they are done right. Still, it takes a lot of testing to figure out what exactly works for you and what works excellent on a course one weekend will not be the hot set up for a race a few weekends later.
The Sno-Pro will be a much more capable sled than the Nytro. You'll immediately notice the lightness when going through the bumps. On the down side, my buddy's Sno-Pro 600 required a lot more maintenance and up keep than the Yamahas he rode in the previous years.
Funny, now this post gets buried in the head to head forum.
I love this site but for some to stick their heads in the sand and not want to admit there are other brands that are better than Yamaha in the performance aspect is silly.
Yamaha is not going to improve unless they can see that people are not happy with the status quo.
I love this site but for some to stick their heads in the sand and not want to admit there are other brands that are better than Yamaha in the performance aspect is silly.
Yamaha is not going to improve unless they can see that people are not happy with the status quo.
yamahahaapex
TY 4 Stroke Master
I was close to pulling the pin on a new ac. prices were very nice, looks were superb and I bet fast as hell. But after one year on my '11 apex with some mods and now with it finally breaking in I changed my mind. Unreal
The Apex's are nice sleds. I see them as being in a class of their own since nobody else offers a 160 HP naturally aspirated 4-stroke.
The Nytro is a different story since it is about the same power as a 600 2-stroke and the only big bump sled Yamaha offers. Just read the new Snotech and the review of the Cat 1100 NA made it sound like a dog. I suspect the 1100 is not comparable power wise to the Nytro, but I bet the chassis is much better.
The Nytro is a different story since it is about the same power as a 600 2-stroke and the only big bump sled Yamaha offers. Just read the new Snotech and the review of the Cat 1100 NA made it sound like a dog. I suspect the 1100 is not comparable power wise to the Nytro, but I bet the chassis is much better.
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
Yeah, I actually plan to deal with Carver with the new ride as well. Bought all my seals and parts from him in the past. It is strange that I will be going from an 06' Apex, crazy motor that basically makes you perma-grin on the long sweeping curves. To the torque madd Nytro motor, both sleds engines are fairly advanced in the tech department. To an old tech, not just two-stroke, but even the EFI system is the same as many years ago. The 600's race engines are a maintenance demanding engine, more so the 08-09's they changed them on 09 or 10 I believe. This one is different, so hopefully it proves reliable.
I have to say the Sno Pro and Polaris IQR are two sleds that just look like they want to be raced. I've always wanted to take a IQR around a track, something about those that intrigue me.
Looking forward to a report. I guess I have to check the Head to Head since nothing no Yamaha can be anywhere else now. I get it, to a degree, it just like you said, they need to understand why people are trying other brands.
I have to say the Sno Pro and Polaris IQR are two sleds that just look like they want to be raced. I've always wanted to take a IQR around a track, something about those that intrigue me.
Looking forward to a report. I guess I have to check the Head to Head since nothing no Yamaha can be anywhere else now. I get it, to a degree, it just like you said, they need to understand why people are trying other brands.
I think burying any post into Head to Head that mentions something other than Yamaha is lame. I didn't know what I was missing out on until I rode a Pro-R and the Sno-Pro last spring. I know the motors are not comparable but a great motor can only take an OEM so far.
My powerful and reliable Nytro motor doesn't do me any good when the chassis can't keep up with it.
My powerful and reliable Nytro motor doesn't do me any good when the chassis can't keep up with it.
