SuperCharger vrs Turbo charger

[puddytatman]

If I was to purchase a new or used Apex it would definetly need the aid of some power so I would like to get some real world information pertaining to this. I will say that I have not heard anyone who knows the type of riding I am doing recommend a turbo due to the underhood heat, breaking of "Y"pipes, poor gas mileage, SC need to run small boost to run with pump premium 91 and evne then grief so lets hear it from those I dont know.

Can I please hear back information pertaining to SCvrs turbos. What is the best route for someone who will want to trail ride there sled 3-4000 miles a year, can only run pump premium 91 at best and who will run for hours on end with many long long pulls lake and river running and loves to radar.

Who has put significnat miles on either of these two and would recommend for this type of useage. I am not looking for anyone to reply that sells one unless you are offerring me warranty I want guys who had one, or someone who knows someone real well who has one that will tell it like it is.

Are they proven and what is the best - SC or Turbo and what kind - front back, side, MCEXpress, CPR, etc

Thanks in advance

ptm

 

[whitee]

boost?

look back a ways on this forum this subject has been talked about alot!!!. I have a S/C RX-1 my dad has a Simons Cpr front mount and a guy we ride with has a Bender rear mount. There is ups and downs to everything . If you want to run pump gas with higher boost ( more than about 7lbs) IMO with any kit you have to do head shim or pistons rods ect . I run 50 50 mix 10psi in the mountains and love the S/C. Just my $.02

 

[snowbeast]

Hey puddy,my friend just finished the year here in maine with 3,500 miles on his attak,and he has the mpi supercharger installed sense he had 500 miles on sled,so total miles on SC was 3,000 all trail miles in maine and new brunswick wide open trails plus tight twisty and some low elevation up to 4,000 ft. He now has it dialed in at 7.5 lbs boost on 91-93 octane and has no added head gaskets or low comp. pistons,but he is thinking about adding the low comp. Pistons so he can run pump gas on high boost,he set up the pulleys for 10+ lbs boost and ran it a short ways at wfo throttle and he said it hooked him hard,now he wants the high boost all the time lol so he is thinking of the pistons. Now I was amazed when he told me he had that many miles on,and all trouble free miles to boot,but he did say when you push it your gas milage goes to #*$&@,by the tune of 9mpg or worse,but I run mine hard which is stock and at best I get 12 and as low as 9 mpg when in hard going,so if I could add 60-75 hp and only loose 2-3 mpg I would,if I could afford it,hope this helps.

 

[cameljockey]

beast, your sled gets horse poop mileage. have you tried to figure out why? my attak gets 16 takin a beatin, or does mine just get good mileage? i should get worse pullin the heavier track.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

STAN,

you and I are both same,we run same trails,same lakes and same longhauls..Ive been PMing with several SC guys...most ALL turbo guys will tell you they are having alot of manifold cracking issues,and alot of underhood heat for trails.I personally am leaningmuch more toward to MPI SC.....i have spoke to severl tuners who will sell me one for alot less then most think...they have come down in cost and are tying to move leftover units now,so this summer im hoping will be around 4gs.

Im same way,i want pump fuel...the kit comes with 5lb pulley,but you can swap pulleys around to make it a 10 lb setup...which many guys have done,by adding 3 headgaskets,which i dont like as much as buying a head SPACER from the powederlite guys....this spacer with 10 lbs is good for permium pump fuel and should run about 240HP all day long...

then,for radars,we can have alternate pulleys and RACE fuel to add,and then we can finally see some BIG numbers!...

biggest thing im worried about with SC is the poor fuel mileage ive been hearing about...but ive heard once you dial in your fuel system you can get it around 9mpg or so...not great but about same as my old 2 smokes were(ck3) and ALOT faster.


If i get one Ill give you all my feedback.Might be installing it this summer if all goes well.

Dan

 

[puddytatman]

Dan

I hear you but I have not heard anything positive on a SC this year. The ones that go are race only and long haul. In North Bay I was told one only ran 122 so for the money that is not worth it. Got some more interesting stuff I was told if you want to call me do so.

ptm - Stan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Stan..PM some of the guys on here with them...not sure what you heard but all these guys i spoke to trail ride..and are 7-10 lbs on pump..and most have run about 135mph on radar....the HP on SC is 9hp per lb...and 10 hp per lb on turbo...so at 10 lbs on SC you will be adding 90hp,which is about 240hp...that cluched right will run 135+ all day long..

not sure who you are talking to..but id like to hear more from SC guys here...chime in guys!.

PS..was 70f last weekend here falls,now snowing like bastard!.LOL

dan

 

[BlgsRX-1mtn]

STAN,

you and I are both same,we run same trails,same lakes and same longhauls..Ive been PMing with several SC guys...

Im same way,i want pump fuel...the kit comes with 5lb pulley,but you can swap pulleys around to make it a 10 lb setup...which many guys have done,by adding 3 headgaskets,which i dont like as much as buying a head SPACER from the powederlite guys....this spacer with 10 lbs is good for permium pump fuel and should run about 240HP all day long...

then,for radars,we can have alternate pulleys and RACE fuel to add,and then we can finally see some BIG numbers!...

If i get one Ill give you all my feedback.Might be installing it this summer if all goes well.

Dan

Dan, you can't run different pulleys to get the Stage 1 SC over 240HP. The Stage 1 is making max HP in the 10 PSI. To get above this plan on buying the Stage 2 and do the spacer as you said. This will give you the Pump gas HP you want with tha ability to dial up the HP with Pulley changes.

It's true what they say about HP though. Once you taste a little, you just keep craving more .I am seriously considering upgrading to the Stage 2 SC kit on my RX-1mtn after running the Stage 1 this year but, it won't happen for a while( house renovations come first) .

Jim

 

[monker]

I ran my SC on my warrior all last season without any problems. Go the extra step beyond the kit to get good clutching and gauges. You'll want to watch at least boost and a wideband O2, water temp is also good.

I ran radar once, and was within 3 mph of a big front mount turbo with motor work, a 121 cat skid with 1" track and 15+lbs boost, but he was geared low. My warrior had an m10, 136 ripsaw, and was setup for trail riding with the stock gearing.

The pull was amazing. As with any boosted sled, once you get onto it your gas milage will go down. I was seeing 10+ mpg once my jetting was straightened out.

If you want real big hp, go right for the stage 2. Last time I talked with MPI I was told that I would be better off just buying a stage 2 instead of upgrading. That would have been nice to know when I bought the stage 1. Realisticlly though, the stage 1 at 7lbs was more than I could use on the trails I ride.

 

[puddytatman]

Stan..PM some of the guys on here with them...not sure what you heard but all these guys i spoke to trail ride..and are 7-10 lbs on pump..and most have run about 135mph on radar....the HP on SC is 9hp per lb...and 10 hp per lb on turbo...so at 10 lbs on SC you will be adding 90hp,which is about 240hp...that cluched right will run 135+ all day long..

not sure who you are talking to..but id like to hear more from SC guys here...chime in guys!.

PS..was 70f last weekend here falls,now snowing like bastard!.LOL

dan

Dan

I would love to see the guy that wull run that much boost on pump 91 and survive our style of riding. I know of more that had complete failure resulting in huge costs to them - NO WARRANTY - trying to run that much boost. Even 5 lbs I am told is border line with the fuel you get here so a guy I know mixes race fuel just to be safe to run 5 lbs.

As for the speed they are claiming it may be right in a long distance and with race fuel but from what I know to be a fact I would have to see it to believe it including the boost they run and the gas they put in it. It sure would be nice to be wrong though.

Still looking for more info so keep it coming

ptm

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Stan,
I hear ya..and its smart to do our homework before we end up blown up.....the guys i talked to ran 5lbs with STOCK motor,and when going to 10 lbs used the spacer OR 3 stock head gaskets with pump fuel and said they had good luck...another guy did the spacer AND timing retard,which is another way to help with deto..

If your gonna hold it for long hauls then sure you gotta be MUCH more concerned with the fuel/compression ect...I knock sensor would be a nice addon so you can get OUT OF IT when she starts to knock...

But if you really want to be fullproof,go with low compression pistons AND spacer and then run pump fuel all day long.

I did forget about 240hp is max on stage one kit...maybe the stage 2 kit would be best?..I still think this SC for trail running is better then turbo IMO...less heat,no spool up,less overal added weight,100% stock exhaust,nice simple install which can be removed and undetected for resale,stock fuel tank which should yeild same distance for trail riding as a turbo with smaller tank.

I still am not sold and wish we had one in our group to ride with to see real world how it holds up..but i think for radar running its just as fast as a turbo,if not faster in short runs,with no spooling....i think in 2000 ft 130 should be attainable if not 135+...and long hauls 135+ should be the norm....

also,remember the cost seems to be less then the turbos ive looked into..less finiky from what i hear too,guys i spoke to say they truly are bolt on,and dial then done!...clutching should be a snap.

keep me posted on what your thinking of doing...i might wait another season as i want to see if and when CPR comes with his front mount turbo,which should be cream of the crop...but we are all still waiting for him.

Dan

 

[Bossman]

Puddy - I dont know where you ride but and what kind of gas quality you have access to but 91 octane on 5 lbs boost with a stock motor is completely safe. My buddy ran his that way this winter and put 825 miles on it with no problems. On my sled I ran 10 lbs with triple head gaskets on 91 octane and it ran great, I put 320 miles on mine. I rode trails in Michigan and my buddy rode trails in Michigan and Wisconsin. If you know guys that had complete failure with those setups they were self inflicted. Did any of them have Air/Fuel ratio gauges to know how they were running? On my last trip I got 100 miles to a tank of gas and still need to lean down the mid range for even better trail cruising fuel economy but ran out of time and now snow.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Just wondering....all you SC and turbo guys....what kind of radar speeds are you seeing on apexs,rxs or whatever...and what length of runs and conditions of tracks....

Is it true a SC or turbo should radar 130+ in 1500ft?.....or is there no way?...what would they radar at on long hauls?..

I know alot of turbo and SC guys are mountain riders,but i know alot more flatlanders got them this past season,so id like to hear more about radar speeds from you guys.

thanks guys...
dan

 

[Bossman]

Unfortionately do to lack of snow and time I wasnt able to radar at any distances we were just getting everything dialed in. It just becomes a matter of gearing for what you want. In that distance on ice you should definately be able to do that.

 

[puddytatman]

Puddy - I dont know where you ride but and what kind of gas quality you have access to but 91 octane on 5 lbs boost with a stock motor is completely safe. My buddy ran his that way this winter and put 825 miles on it with no problems. On my sled I ran 10 lbs with triple head gaskets on 91 octane and it ran great, I put 320 miles on mine. I rode trails in Michigan and my buddy rode trails in Michigan and Wisconsin. If you know guys that had complete failure with those setups they were self inflicted. Did any of them have Air/Fuel ratio gauges to know how they were running? On my last trip I got 100 miles to a tank of gas and still need to lean down the mid range for even better trail cruising fuel economy but ran out of time and now snow.

The problem I have with that is the mileage ou have on it cannot verify reliability. No offence but to some up here you could do that mileage on a weekend ride. We can ride for hours on end to the bar for most of it so you would need to put significnatly more miles on it to say it is reliable. Not saying it isnt it may very well be but I had an F8 dynotuned once told it was safe.....well 700 miles later kaboom......before then everything was great.

Thanks for your response.

Dan

I was told of a guy running 5 lbs boost but when it came down to it he was running 5 lbs but adding race fuel. Any with that amouny of boost did not run anywhere mph that I would consider the investment worth it.

I would like to hear Mike Knapps/John Weelocks take on SC vrs turbo.

ptm