For the guys that have owned both. Which of the 2 are more trail reliable and have less overall problems? I have owned a front mount turbo and loved it, but wondering if the S/Cs are more trail reliable. What about head to head racing comparisons, anyone done that, boost for boost?
Thanks for any info...BBY
Thanks for any info...BBY
rx-hi
Pro
What kind of trail reliable problems have you had with the front mount and what boost are you running?
rerod
Extreme
I had nothing but problems with my front mount rx1. Heat melting all the coolant lines always and cracked headers always. There is nothing more fun then stopping every 10 miles and opening the hood to let the turbo cool down so I can keep riding and not melt lines. For me the supercharger I have now is the best trail sled you can ask for. No heat, it uses its own oil and spot on performance always.
Cracked headers a few times that made me leave trips early or nurse it back to a place I could come pick it up. Only time I had any issues with coolant lines was when heat tape would work its way off the coolant lines on the inlet of the turbo. Cracked the first header and it was replaced with a new one. New one also cracked and I took it off and reinforced it with stronger welds and bridged a section where it looked like it could crack. Someone needs to come up with a support bracket of some kind to relieve the stress the header takes on holding up a 25lb turbo and going through the stresses a trail machine gives it. For the lakes, there is no where near the stress on the header like there is on the trails.
rerod, is 10 psi safe with that S/C on 93 octane? Did you install a BOV and is it a must? Whoever bought that RX-1 you bought from me? Havent talked to you in awhile. Shoot me your phone # in a PM, Id like to talk live about the S/C.
Thanks
Matt
rerod, is 10 psi safe with that S/C on 93 octane? Did you install a BOV and is it a must? Whoever bought that RX-1 you bought from me? Havent talked to you in awhile. Shoot me your phone # in a PM, Id like to talk live about the S/C.
Thanks
Matt
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
Havng owed both they both have pro's and con's and it really depends what you want out of it and how much you want to spend.
SC
Awesome extremely well engineered unit I would wager to say the best engineered one out of the bunch in terms of CNC quality machined parts and its ability to truely be a bolt on and go setup. The supercharger lacks a blow off valve which would prevent alot of belt wear something I didn't have any troubles with what so ever but others have. I have also heard of people blowing off intercoolers etc I didn't have any of these troubles running 1:1 pulleys. Stock exhaust is a huge plus when trail riding along with a factory size fuel tank. I literally set my fuel box up last year bolted in Ulmer's clutch kit and put 3000 miles on without a hitch. I would check it perodically but other then that no leaks no problems nothing but fun. Not to bad on fuel if you rode it half decent it would get 100 miles out of a tank of gas. Awesome power for the trails very linear and manageable.
MPI's downfall is their crappy way of supplying the extra fuel needed, the lack of a blow off valve, and also no parts or stage II could be had at all last season, also the non ability to adjust boost does also suck. We did design and still have a servo controlled butterfly vavle to blow off excess boost when trail riding to conserve fuel but was never tested because I went turbo.
The turbo has its share of extra's let no one tell you for a trail machine you are going to bolt it on and ride it. I do not care what kit you get for a front mount heat is heat is heat. You cannot trap or get rid of that heat no matter what gadget you expect to attatch to your sled. No fans vents etc will do it. I melted 2 sets of tank plastics that have HUGE holes cut in them for venting with screening and they are toast in one ride. It will also start to melt the plastic around your gauge pod as well. The only solution out there right now is a turbo hood. Fiberglass bolt that baby on and no problems.
Turbo
My turubo kit is very well built I would have to say one of the best out there forsure. Quality materials and fittings everywhere. I would have to say the only thing I don't like is loosing part of my fuel tank. The turbo I have powederlites front mount has zero lag I mean none in the trails. Im running the head shim at 12 psi for trail riding and its a full handful of sled. This thing would absolutely KILL the supercharger setup for performance and power bar none if you want to be king the turbo is the way.
Also when you concider now your going to trail ride it you need to get an exhaust system behind the turbo that is quiet enough to please the noise police and also non restrictive as you will loose HP. Also bare in mind riding the trails you pretty well need to remove your head lights and go to the PIAA setup to get enough air in the cowlings to keep the turbo cool. I have had absolutely ZERO problems with my turbo after I installed the turbo hood no melting or any troubles there anymore what so ever.
The fuel controller Dave sells from powderlites is second to none the purelogic box is the best thing out there for boost fuel adders its 100% better then the MPI unit and pretty much the industry standard for fuel addition.
If you are looking for speed I would argue with anyone that tells you these sleds can go over 125-127 mph with a factory primary clutch as well unless ofcourse it is cut for overdrive, I run an aftermarket clutch and will put 10 mph in my sled instantly with my HRP quad cam because it can shift past 1:1. I have spoken to numerous people on this as well and they also agree. The only way a factory primary clutch apex will run BIG mph is with HUGE gearing to compensate for the 1:1 shift ratio.
I guess there you have it you'll have to draw your own conclusions from my experience having experienced both I guess Im a good source. If you want to be the king get a turbo it will not dissappoint it just keeps pulling when the super runs out of steam, if you are happy with a 200 hp trail sled the super is hard to beat. Its quite a bit less to get working and its nice and quiet. Makes a good sleeper, if I had to do it all over again I would buy another turbo why... because second is just not good enough.
SC
Awesome extremely well engineered unit I would wager to say the best engineered one out of the bunch in terms of CNC quality machined parts and its ability to truely be a bolt on and go setup. The supercharger lacks a blow off valve which would prevent alot of belt wear something I didn't have any troubles with what so ever but others have. I have also heard of people blowing off intercoolers etc I didn't have any of these troubles running 1:1 pulleys. Stock exhaust is a huge plus when trail riding along with a factory size fuel tank. I literally set my fuel box up last year bolted in Ulmer's clutch kit and put 3000 miles on without a hitch. I would check it perodically but other then that no leaks no problems nothing but fun. Not to bad on fuel if you rode it half decent it would get 100 miles out of a tank of gas. Awesome power for the trails very linear and manageable.
MPI's downfall is their crappy way of supplying the extra fuel needed, the lack of a blow off valve, and also no parts or stage II could be had at all last season, also the non ability to adjust boost does also suck. We did design and still have a servo controlled butterfly vavle to blow off excess boost when trail riding to conserve fuel but was never tested because I went turbo.
The turbo has its share of extra's let no one tell you for a trail machine you are going to bolt it on and ride it. I do not care what kit you get for a front mount heat is heat is heat. You cannot trap or get rid of that heat no matter what gadget you expect to attatch to your sled. No fans vents etc will do it. I melted 2 sets of tank plastics that have HUGE holes cut in them for venting with screening and they are toast in one ride. It will also start to melt the plastic around your gauge pod as well. The only solution out there right now is a turbo hood. Fiberglass bolt that baby on and no problems.
Turbo
My turubo kit is very well built I would have to say one of the best out there forsure. Quality materials and fittings everywhere. I would have to say the only thing I don't like is loosing part of my fuel tank. The turbo I have powederlites front mount has zero lag I mean none in the trails. Im running the head shim at 12 psi for trail riding and its a full handful of sled. This thing would absolutely KILL the supercharger setup for performance and power bar none if you want to be king the turbo is the way.
Also when you concider now your going to trail ride it you need to get an exhaust system behind the turbo that is quiet enough to please the noise police and also non restrictive as you will loose HP. Also bare in mind riding the trails you pretty well need to remove your head lights and go to the PIAA setup to get enough air in the cowlings to keep the turbo cool. I have had absolutely ZERO problems with my turbo after I installed the turbo hood no melting or any troubles there anymore what so ever.
The fuel controller Dave sells from powderlites is second to none the purelogic box is the best thing out there for boost fuel adders its 100% better then the MPI unit and pretty much the industry standard for fuel addition.
If you are looking for speed I would argue with anyone that tells you these sleds can go over 125-127 mph with a factory primary clutch as well unless ofcourse it is cut for overdrive, I run an aftermarket clutch and will put 10 mph in my sled instantly with my HRP quad cam because it can shift past 1:1. I have spoken to numerous people on this as well and they also agree. The only way a factory primary clutch apex will run BIG mph is with HUGE gearing to compensate for the 1:1 shift ratio.
I guess there you have it you'll have to draw your own conclusions from my experience having experienced both I guess Im a good source. If you want to be the king get a turbo it will not dissappoint it just keeps pulling when the super runs out of steam, if you are happy with a 200 hp trail sled the super is hard to beat. Its quite a bit less to get working and its nice and quiet. Makes a good sleeper, if I had to do it all over again I would buy another turbo why... because second is just not good enough.
a7m266d
In regards to 125-127 max with factory clutching, does 134.5mph on asphalt count? My clutch is not machined and is the factory clutch other than weights and springs.
In regards to 125-127 max with factory clutching, does 134.5mph on asphalt count? My clutch is not machined and is the factory clutch other than weights and springs.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
What gearing are you running to get there? I can't do it with mine. With 25/38 gearing.
KnappAttack
24X ISR World Drag Racing Champion
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2017 Sidewinder LTX-LE
Jamie, I can tell you they WILL run over 130 easy with the stock clutch. I had a HRP Quad cam and will have to disagree on that. It is a great looking clutch that just does not perform. I spent a year with the HRP clutch drag racing, and finally gave up on it. No matter what I did with it, it would be a tenth and a half slower than even a stock Cat clutch. They have to much flex and bind in them to put the power to the belt. Also would say that I had to do allot to the Powderlites kit to keep it from melting plastic last year. This year with the CPR kit it runs so much cooler and happier. No heat issues with the CPR turbo whatsoever, even with stock plastic,headlight and pod, etc.. CPR also uses a modified stock exhaust can for quiet trail use. They all use the pure logic fuel programer, MPI, CPR, and Powderlites. Only one that is different is the Boondocker kit who use their own box. Won't talk bad about other kits, but will tell you CPR turbo kit is perfect for trail turbo so far, as is MPI in a supercharger kit. It all boils down to the quality of the kits and the guy and his experience putting it on. Mike Knapp#17
DC5
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I have to disagree as well. I went 139mph with 25-38 gearing with factory clutch and 153mph with 10 tooth drivers and 25-38 gearing.
Need for Speed 2
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
what are you guys running for tracks to withstand those speeds. i dont think any of my tracks will handle it .i know my sled wont go that fast either. not at current with a straight down pipe dumping into the tunnell. like eddy murphy said somebody put a banana in my tailpipe.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
I guess I must have a slug then I can pick up MPH with my HRP but cannot MPH with the stock clutch. 25.38 gearing with a factory primary clutch.
Here is my argument take the calculator from here http://www.snowmobileworld.com/tools/index.php plug into it your numbers if you use 11000 RPM as your engine RPM more then were all running Im sure the most you can run with a 5% overdrive is 132.66 with 9 tooth drivers 25/38 gearing.
I ran 123 with mine on the weekend making it 100% a 1:1 ratio at 10600 rpm using this calculator. Are we all talking about the apex here? The RX1 is capible of faster speeds because of the gear reduction being different. Im not out at all to cause anything just don't understand if Im running close to the same clutching as most others out there why are my speeds less? Would a 20k head wind and 1" of snow + my 1.25" ripsaw make that big of a difference? Are we all comparing acutal trail ridden sleds on pump gas around 12 psi?
Like I say bolt my HRP on and I put 10 mph in my sled instantly not complaining about my speds at all I can run 137+ but I sure can't do it on a factory primary clutch.
Here is my argument take the calculator from here http://www.snowmobileworld.com/tools/index.php plug into it your numbers if you use 11000 RPM as your engine RPM more then were all running Im sure the most you can run with a 5% overdrive is 132.66 with 9 tooth drivers 25/38 gearing.
I ran 123 with mine on the weekend making it 100% a 1:1 ratio at 10600 rpm using this calculator. Are we all talking about the apex here? The RX1 is capible of faster speeds because of the gear reduction being different. Im not out at all to cause anything just don't understand if Im running close to the same clutching as most others out there why are my speeds less? Would a 20k head wind and 1" of snow + my 1.25" ripsaw make that big of a difference? Are we all comparing acutal trail ridden sleds on pump gas around 12 psi?
Like I say bolt my HRP on and I put 10 mph in my sled instantly not complaining about my speds at all I can run 137+ but I sure can't do it on a factory primary clutch.
Is this correct?
My gearing is 25/38 also with stock drivers (9 tooth), but I have not had a chance to run it on snow at that speed, like I said that was on asphalt. Wind and a ripsaw track and snow conditions will play a big part in it. I know that we lose lots of speed and ET’s when we are bucking a head wind. When we have a tail wind we pick up lots too. To get 135mph out of it with that gearing, I’d probably have to have all those factors in my favor and may even need to be running a speed track. Hopefully I can get it out in the next few weeks before the end of the winter and see, but the snow conditions may be quite poor this time of year.
TurboJamie
TY 4 Stroke God
DC5
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Need for Speed 2 said:
I am running a camoplast 9811R speed track. I won't run any farther than 1320' with that track any more. Next year I am going to put on a belt track and go for some big numbers.
