Team Fast 136" M20 - Apex LTX / Attak, Vector LTX

[4bangdan]

wow, very nice job. you are a pro with electrical and mechanical. i also enjoy this type of work. it is as fun as riding sometimes. you now have two of the best riding sleds ever. super job on both. looks very durable too.

 

[Redbeard]

wow, very nice job. you are a pro with electrical and mechanical. i also enjoy this type of work. it is as fun as riding sometimes. you now have two of the best riding sleds ever. super job on both. looks very durable too.

Thank you! Durability has always been my top concern, not just for myself, but for others that ride my sled as well.

I took what I learned from my Apex and applied it to this Vector. Now I'm refining some of the Vector features and re-applying them to another Apex XTX that belongs to a friend...coming soon!

 

[steveg_nh]

HOLY COW! I am completely speechless with the quality of your work. This was just an amazing project. You do have me now thinking about doing my own powder coat! Thank you for taking the time to write all of this up as you went.

 

[steveg_nh]

I've read your posts and I can tell you're not one to take a back seat when it comes to doing the job right!

Lol. Thanks! And yes that’s me in a nutshell.

 

[1nc 2000]

Nice work on your sled! Hopefully this year I'll get a chance to meet up with you guys on a ty ride. I won't be riding on Saturday due to work schedule.

 

[kinger]

Bumping for an amazing build, I will reference this often if I end up with a M20 for a project sled!

 

[yamadoo]

Lol. Thanks! And yes that’s me in a nutshell.

True

 

[kinger]

How often are you using the adjust on the fly? What scenarios are finding it a lifesaver? Say you encounter some chop do you soften it to get through and if you start bottoming you add more air? If it’s extra firm does it corner tighter say on a fresh groomed trail?

And anyone compare to the electric Ohlins mono still way better? Thanks!!

 

[Redbeard]

How often are you using the adjust on the fly?

I'm not a super aggressive rider, but this is what works for me and the way I ride:

Front shocks - I do not adjust as often. 35-40 psi has proven to be the sweet spot on these sleds in most conditions. If the whoops get too deep, or you want to wick up the speeds and get aggressive, then bump 'er up to 45+ psi. I run USI Triple Threat ski's with 9" Stud Boy Deuce bars, and the sled rails. Steering effort with this setup is higher on the Vector, but perfect on the Apex with power steering.

The rear air spring- As with the front, this setting boils down to personal preference. I randomly adjust throughout the day as the trail and air temperature changes. You wouldn't think a 10° - 15° swing in air temperature would make a difference, but it does, just like an automobile tire. You find yourself making little +/- bumps to maintain the level of squish you desire. I know that sounds corny, but it's a simple and accurate way to describe it.

Even filling up with gas makes a difference. As you're standing there at the pump, you can feel the sled droop a little. The gas weight is about the same difference as throwing a small child on the back, so you need to air-up a little.

In the morning when the trail is smooth, you'll notice very little advantage to the M20. Later in the day, however; the endless stutters are where this skid shines! You can roll right through what would normally make you grip the bars tighter. You're feet don't slap the running boards and the sled stays stable and in control. If you don't feel occasional, light bottoming, then you're running too much air pressure.

The skid really needs about 4 - 5" of sit-in to perform the best, which can easily be adjusted, even when a different rider gets on board. These little things are what makes on-the-fly adjustability worth its weight in gold, and I would recommend it to anyone. Your buddies will also thank you for not stopping at every road crossing and whipping out the hand pump to make an adjustment.

Some people still prefer a properly set up mono. It all depends to the rider, but I will say the M20 is a perfect high mile per day trail suspension. Weight transfer at take-off isn't quite as good as a mono, but it doesn't lack much! It's much better than the older M10. Either way, I'm well into my 40's and 200-300 mile per day comfort trumps all!

Throw a 1.5" lug track under an M20 and you'll love it!

 

[Redbeard]

I bought my Apex XTX as a new leftover in January, 2013. I had the option to purchase a 128" mono springer, or the XTX. I didn't think I wanted a shorter track, so I thought the XTX was the best option. I really wanted an LTX, but Yamaha ditched that model of Apex, which I NEVER understood??

Anyways, I took my new XTX on the first week-long trip and hated it...beat me to death! I started researching options: different springs, revalve, Star Kit, even trading the sled! I read all the forums for XTX improvements, but nothing sounded like a cure that would suit me. Since I already owned an enjoyed an M10, I thought I'd give the M20 a shot!

Well, five years later, I will say the M20 is the single best upgrade I've ever made to a snowmobile. It literally kept me from eating crow and un-loading a brand new sled. I felt it was such an improvement over the M10, that I purchased an additional M20 to replace the M10 in my Vector.

On another note, if I had purchased the 128 to begin with, I may have never ventured down the M20 path, as the Mono II rides well right out of the box, but not as good as an M20. That's just me though.

 

[Redbeard]

I'll add a few more things:

When ordering an M20, it's very important to discuss rider weight and riding style with Fast so they can hopefully get your shock valving where it needs to be the first time.

Also, the skid will loosen up and ride better after a day or two of pounding. The bushings will relax and the air spring will stretch-in; for lack of better term.

As with any new ride, it will take a small amount of time to get acclimated to the skid and its nature. After a while, you'll be able to jump on the sled, bounce a time or two and just know if there's enough air in the spring. For me, the air pressure gauge is just a reference or ballpark gauge to start from.

Play with the limiter strap! Thanks to feedback from Dusty Dan and Soldiers Papa, I cinched-up my limiter strap to discover the sled cornered flatter and rode even better!

 

[Elton Buss]

I would like to give my input on this subject. I installed an airwave in my 04 Warrior. I went the way of hand pumping the skid for the first year, not the second year. It was the first year Fast offered the airwave. All the aluminum rear arm pieces on my airwave are cnc'd. Brain at that time told me that when you have the skid set you won't need to change it. Lol
As Redbeard stated you will find yourself adjusting Air pressure more than you ever would think. Redbeard gave you really good examples. I find that when the snow starts accumulating in the tunnel you are adding quite a bit of weight and the skid will need more air pressure.
I find the torque of these four strokes pull the skid down also.

Now for the mono skid I have an 07 Attack gt road that the first year stock, not the second. I talked to Ross at Hygear at the Syracuse snow show and had his dual rate spring and valving done on the ohlins shock. That made a very big difference in ride quality but no comparison to the airwave.

 

[kinger]

So where are getting all your solenoids, fittings, lines, etc? I think you said a local hydraulic shop makes the lines, I have seen some slip on hard tube, do you not trust that? I agree the whole point of the air is to be able to adjust easily. This skid sounds so good!

 

[Redbeard]

Where are you getting all your solenoids, fittings, lines, etc?

All solenoids, switches and electrical connectors were sourced from eBay.

All fittings and lines were sourced from my local hydraulic shop.

When I decided on the type of air lines to use, I wanted something that would take a beating and be easy to work on in frigid weather if an issue were to arise. Standard DOT lines with compression fittings would work, but I just don't trust their durability, no to mention the little ferrules needed to keep from crushing the line. In addition, my old farm semi's use compression fittings, and they ALL leak.

I ultimately decided on stainless braided poly air lines with stainless #4 JIC fittings that are crimped on in a hydraulic powered machine. All the lines tighten/loosen with a 9/16 wrench and they will never rust. I have yet to have a line fail. I've even had a large chunk of ice hanging from the air line that goes through the tunnel to the rear spring. The line kinked, but never broke or lost air pressure. I do keep a spare line in the trunk in case it does happen some day.

 

[Redbeard]

I made some changes to the mounting location pictures on page 2, post #18.

I'm trying to make the mounting description as clear and simple as possible.