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Team Fast 136" M20 - 2011+ Apex XTX (Version 1.0)

Discussion in 'Skis, Studs, Tracks and Aftermarket Suspensions' started by Redbeard, Mar 6, 2013.


  1. Viper_Dave

    Viper_Dave Moderator Staff Member Moderator Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,394
    Location:
    Clinton, Wi.
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '11 Apex XTX, '09 Venture GT, '06 Attak, 08 Nytro Hybrid
    Guess I better get a DOO DOO helmet or you guys will kick me outta the club!
     
    Redbeard likes this.
  2. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    UPDATE:

    There are Dupont slides available for M20 suspensions (Polaris profile). Here's the Yamaha part number, compliments of Viper Dave:

    123951.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    Al Bundy likes this.
  3. Al Bundy

    Al Bundy Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member

    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Maine
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2004 Rx Warrior
    Thank-you sir.
     
    Redbeard likes this.
  4. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    I will also mention the graphite slides appear to be holding up much better than the standard hyfax that came on the skid. They'll run at least one more season and are about 1/4 the price of DuPont's.

    The standard hyfax were never an issue until I went to a 1.5" lug track.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    Al Bundy likes this.
  5. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Final ride for the year. Today, March 21, takes the record for the latest I've ever ridden a snowmobile in southern Indiana.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    maim and Dusty Dan like this.
  6. Al Bundy

    Al Bundy Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member

    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Maine
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2004 Rx Warrior
    Alright Santy Claws, what'd you do with Northern Sledder?
     
  7. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Same guy, new handle! ;)!
     
    Elton Buss and Al Bundy like this.
  8. kinger

    kinger VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    6,511
    Location:
    Clear Lake, IA
    What a thread thank you for all the information! I’m thinking of building a special extra cushy easiest riding sled for my dad and give the sled to him. It would appear this suspension is a must. Does team fast not offer a adjustment on the fly approach? You custom made the lines switches, solenoids, etc because they don’t? Trying to understand how anyone would NOT want the push button pressure changes. Can you do that while actually running or do you pull over and flip the switch?

    Can the fronts run stiff enough to remove the sway bar? When the sway bar is disconnected the suspensions are amazing in the rough. When the trail is smooth though it needs to be connected for flat handling.

    Awesome build!!
     
  9. yamadoo

    yamadoo Yamadoo is a snowmobile ' aholic'. Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    3,230
    Location:
    SE MN work North shore Superior play
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    15 Viper STX DX red/white
    13 Apex XTX 45 anniversary RED/WHITE/BLACK
    10 Vector LTX Blue
    11 Venture Gt
    86 SnoScoot(2) for grand kids
    Kinger I have ridden with Joe / Red beard and he is adding or bleeding air while under way. I am sure he will explain when he is available
     
  10. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Thank you for the comments, Kinger! I will first ask what year / model sled you have in mind for your dad? I assume a Yamaha?

    Team Fast use to sell a kit they called, "Diamond!" It consisted of a two-way toggle switch, air lines, gauge and compressor that could be activated to adjust rear air spring pressure while moving. The switch had a combination of air and electrical terminals: move the switch one way and it would power the pump, move it the other way and it would dump air pressure. I think they sold lots of Diamond kits, maybe still do, but I am not certain?

    The kit they promote now is called, "Compac!" It consists of: compressor, power switch, gauge and a schrader valve as a compact assembly that's designed to be mounted to the tunnel (pics below). It also includes a steel braided air line and all the necessary parts to fasten and secure the air line to the rear air spring. To adjust air pressure, you either press the power button to activate the pump for more pressure, or use your fingernail to depress the schrader valve and release pressure. This exact kit is what I originally purchased in the spring of 2013, but I ended up taking a different approach to add / subtract air for several reasons: starting on page 7, post 104: https://ty4stroke.com/threads/team-fast-m20-apex-xtx-version-1-0.119161/page-7

    20130702_131225.jpg 375.jpg FA167.jpg
    I pretty much scrapped everything in the Compac kit and started over. I'm not discrediting the Compac kit, as it would be the most simple route, but it mounts to the tunnel and you have to stop to make an adjustment. I just don't like the idea of having to stop for an adjustment when you encounter whooped-out conditions, especially when there's 1 or more sleds behind you. I wanted a true on-the-fly system, and after 5 years of running this way, I will say that I'm glad I did it.

    IMO, if you want the most from any type of air suspension, it needs to be adjustable, on-the-fly. If it's not, you're likely going to miss out on the full potential of the skid. Think of it this way...imagine if we all could adjust our clutching on the fly!! We'd have the capability of finding that sweet spot, which is constantly changing. Otherwise, we settle for what we think is good enough, likely missing out on what could have been better.



    The front:

    While I don't adjust the front shock air pressure as often, I still love having the capability of being able to make that adjustment, on-the-fly, independent of the rear. They work great for trail and you can run the air pressure as firm or light as you wish! You can literally watch your ski tips hammering up and down in the rough, but the sled stays steady and in control. These shocks compliment the rear skid well.

    I've never experimented with unhooking the sway bar. That may be something that I'll have to try next winter and report back.


    The rear:

    All I used from Fast was the skid and the dimensions to mount it (do not deviate from the specified mounting locations). Everything else was custom made, most of which was unnecessary, but worth every minute I spent to do it. The one thing that I'd recommend to anyone, is to make heavier mounting plates for attaching the front arm inside the tunnel. I don't feel the plates supplied with the skid are adequate.

    The M20 is a great, high mile trail suspension. They ride great and will really take a beating. You can roll right through some trail junk that you normally wouldn't with a stock skid. However, it does have its limit, as you sometimes encounter conditions that no skid is capable of handling with comfort.

    Fast really did a great job engineering the M20 to fit into the Delta Box Yamaha sleds, especially the older LTX models! The installation is relatively easy and the skid looks like it's supposed to be there. I took some of the LTX installation features and blended them into the M20 2.0 thread, which features the newer tunnel used on the 2011+ Apex. Read the Vector thread first and you'll better understand the Apex thread.

    I hope I've answered your questions and I'll be glad to answer any more that you may have! ;)!

    Vector LTX M20 - https://ty4stroke.com/threads/team-fast-m20-vector-ltx.141902/

    Apex M20 2.0 - https://ty4stroke.com/threads/team-fast-m20-apex-xtx-version-2-0.148773/
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  11. yamadoo

    yamadoo Yamadoo is a snowmobile ' aholic'. Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    3,230
    Location:
    SE MN work North shore Superior play
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    15 Viper STX DX red/white
    13 Apex XTX 45 anniversary RED/WHITE/BLACK
    10 Vector LTX Blue
    11 Venture Gt
    86 SnoScoot(2) for grand kids
    I second the “ I can roll through trail junk that a stock ....” as I followed an Apex with a M20 air for hundreds of UP miles this year and occasionally would be thinking “it didn’t look that rough for him” but the trail had my full attention on my XTX Apex with a Star upgrade.
     
  12. Redbeard

    Redbeard Lifetime Member Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,649
    Location:
    IN
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    2012 Apex, 136 M20, PB80
    2008 Vector, 136 M20, PB80
    2004 RX Warrior
    1995 Vmax 4 800
    1995 Vmax 600 LE
    1995 Ovation 340 LE
    Yep! Ye Olde Viper Dave! :D
     
  13. Viper_Dave

    Viper_Dave Moderator Staff Member Moderator Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    2,394
    Location:
    Clinton, Wi.
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    '11 Apex XTX, '09 Venture GT, '06 Attak, 08 Nytro Hybrid
    Hmmm, wondered why my ears were burning! EVERYTHING you've read can't truly do justice to the ride quality of this system. Joe's upgrades make it the ultimate trail smoothing setup. Yes, tweaking on the fly.... can't help myself, I'm ALWAYS looking for that PERFECT setting. And through the day that setting changes. Fill up with fuel, you need to raise the pressure. To TRULY get the full effect of this system, the on the fly adjustability is paramount. Leave it alone, it still rides very well. But you'll miss that super smooth ride as conditions change.
     
    Elton Buss likes this.
  14. kinger

    kinger VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    6,511
    Location:
    Clear Lake, IA
    Awesome!! I may have to build this sled, sounds amazing to ride!
     
  15. yamadoo

    yamadoo Yamadoo is a snowmobile ' aholic'. Lifetime VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    3,230
    Location:
    SE MN work North shore Superior play
    Country:
    USA
    Snowmobile:
    15 Viper STX DX red/white
    13 Apex XTX 45 anniversary RED/WHITE/BLACK
    10 Vector LTX Blue
    11 Venture Gt
    86 SnoScoot(2) for grand kids
    Only downsides I saw or experienced were $ and reduced weight shift.

    I was the only Apex of 4 without the Air20 on about a 900 mile + long 4 day weekend in the UP.

    My Apex was fine but theirs no doubt were SMOOTHER.
     

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