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Team Industries Clutching for Vipers

J

jetpilot785

Pro
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
131
I was looking at the 2016 Arctic Cat lineup and saw that they are going with Team Industries clutching for the new sleds next year. I just got off the phone with Glen at Team Industries and they are possibly interested in making viper conversion kits to utilize this new setup. They said they have been testing the setup on the new 7000 series sled and are seeing 103mph all day long on normal conditions on trails and snow covered lakes. he said he didn't have anything in store for the viper but with enough interest, they would look into it.

I also talked to him a little about what it would take to convert to an AC jackshaft to run the clutch and he said they believe they changed the shaft from 15 to 16 so he doesn't know for sure how much will remain the same from year to year as far as bearing carriers, chaincase setup etc but the '15 jackshaft is cheap to aquire (around $60 new online) and may be a cheap experiment to see if it will convert and work with the 14-16 vipers. He also said he is 99% sure the taper of the primary clutch is the same between the 2 since they are both Yamaha based engines and most likely use the same crank taper so the primary clutch may be a direct bolt on.

It would be sweet if the primary bolted right up and the secondary only required a '16 jackshaft to convert it. I will definitely be looking into this and posting my finding s as I go. I'm tired of the 85mph wall.
 

jetpilot785 said:
I was looking at the 2016 Arctic Cat lineup and saw that they are going with Team Industries clutching for the new sleds next year. I just got off the phone with Glen at Team Industries and they are possibly interested in making viper conversion kits to utilize this new setup. They said they have been testing the setup on the new 7000 series sled and are seeing 103mph all day long on normal conditions on trails and snow covered lakes. he said he didn't have anything in store for the viper but with enough interest, they would look into it.

I also talked to him a little about what it would take to convert to an AC jackshaft to run the clutch and he said they believe they changed the shaft from 15 to 16 so he doesn't know for sure how much will remain the same from year to year as far as bearing carriers, chaincase setup etc but the '15 jackshaft is cheap to aquire (around $60 new online) and may be a cheap experiment to see if it will convert and work with the 14-16 vipers. He also said he is 99% sure the taper of the primary clutch is the same between the 2 since they are both Yamaha based engines and most likely use the same crank taper so the primary clutch may be a direct bolt on.

It would be sweet if the primary bolted right up and the secondary only required a '16 jackshaft to convert it. I will definitely be looking into this and posting my finding s as I go. I'm tired of the 85mph wall.
Click to expand...

What clutch are you running now?

http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/top-speed-survey.134320/
 
I currently have the D&D clutch kit in it and have been up and down in springs and weight on the magnaforce weights and while it pulls harder and back shifts better than stock, it still falls flat around 76-78 and will creep to 83-85 with enough room. I also had the Ulmer machining done to the secondary and I am running his spring as well and still it runs between 82-85 on hard packed trails and about 76-78 on normal trail conditions. Glen was telling me the 7000 cat was running 103 all day long on regular snow pack. It may run a little more on really hard pack surfaces or ice and it may run a little less on looser conditions but over all it will run about 100 on top consistently. At least that is what he told me. Plus I remember running Team clutches years ago and liked them a lot. Great upshift and backshift, rollers instead of those friction pucks and no sheave movement which will help with the belt dust. I have also read that guys are having great luck with the gates belts as far as dust because now my brakes are so covered with dust and glazed over they do not bite well and they squeal like crazy. I would like to also look into a vented brake disc and better brake pads (maybe ceramic) that will be more consistent and not glaze over so badly. Just something I will look into over the summer but thought I would plant the seed in case someone else was wondering about the TEAM clutches on the viper.
 
jetpilot785 said:
I currently have the D&D clutch kit in it and have been up and down in springs and weight on the magnaforce weights and while it pulls harder and back shifts better than stock, it still falls flat around 76-78 and will creep to 83-85 with enough room. I also had the Ulmer machining done to the secondary and I am running his spring as well and still it runs between 82-85 on hard packed trails and about 76-78 on normal trail conditions. Glen was telling me the 7000 cat was running 103 all day long on regular snow pack. It may run a little more on really hard pack surfaces or ice and it may run a little less on looser conditions but over all it will run about 100 on top consistently. At least that is what he told me. Plus I remember running Team clutches years ago and liked them a lot. Great upshift and backshift, rollers instead of those friction pucks and no sheave movement which will help with the belt dust. I have also read that guys are having great luck with the gates belts as far as dust because now my brakes are so covered with dust and glazed over they do not bite well and they squeal like crazy. I would like to also look into a vented brake disc and better brake pads (maybe ceramic) that will be more consistent and not glaze over so badly. Just something I will look into over the summer but thought I would plant the seed in case someone else was wondering about the TEAM clutches on the viper.
Click to expand...

If you are still running the 8JP belt you might switch out to 8DN for a test.
 
jetpilot785 said:
I currently have the D&D clutch kit in it and have been up and down in springs and weight on the magnaforce weights and while it pulls harder and back shifts better than stock, it still falls flat around 76-78 and will creep to 83-85 with enough room. I also had the Ulmer machining done to the secondary and I am running his spring as well and still it runs between 82-85 on hard packed trails and about 76-78 on normal trail conditions. Glen was telling me the 7000 cat was running 103 all day long on regular snow pack. It may run a little more on really hard pack surfaces or ice and it may run a little less on looser conditions but over all it will run about 100 on top consistently. At least that is what he told me. Plus I remember running Team clutches years ago and liked them a lot. Great upshift and backshift, rollers instead of those friction pucks and no sheave movement which will help with the belt dust. I have also read that guys are having great luck with the gates belts as far as dust because now my brakes are so covered with dust and glazed over they do not bite well and they squeal like crazy. I would like to also look into a vented brake disc and better brake pads (maybe ceramic) that will be more consistent and not glaze over so badly. Just something I will look into over the summer but thought I would plant the seed in case someone else was wondering about the TEAM clutches on the viper.
Click to expand...

What are the settings on that secondary spring wrap? And that's with the red spring?
 
jetpilot785 said:
I was looking at the 2016 Arctic Cat lineup and saw that they are going with Team Industries clutching for the new sleds next year. I just got off the phone with Glen at Team Industries and they are possibly interested in making viper conversion kits to utilize this new setup. They said they have been testing the setup on the new 7000 series sled and are seeing 103mph all day long on normal conditions on trails and snow covered lakes. he said he didn't have anything in store for the viper but with enough interest, they would look into it.

I also talked to him a little about what it would take to convert to an AC jackshaft to run the clutch and he said they believe they changed the shaft from 15 to 16 so he doesn't know for sure how much will remain the same from year to year as far as bearing carriers, chaincase setup etc but the '15 jackshaft is cheap to aquire (around $60 new online) and may be a cheap experiment to see if it will convert and work with the 14-16 vipers. He also said he is 99% sure the taper of the primary clutch is the same between the 2 since they are both Yamaha based engines and most likely use the same crank taper so the primary clutch may be a direct bolt on.

It would be sweet if the primary bolted right up and the secondary only required a '16 jackshaft to convert it. I will definitely be looking into this and posting my finding s as I go. I'm tired of the 85mph wall.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm switching my primary to the team rapid reaction now and the secondary . Already have the jackshaft and it will go right in the viper just the splines are different for the secondary clutch , everything in chain case is the same ...... Man I have not been this excited in a long time .....
 
jetpilot785 said:
I currently have the D&D clutch kit in it and have been up and down in springs and weight on the magnaforce weights and while it pulls harder and back shifts better than stock, it still falls flat around 76-78 and will creep to 83-85 with enough room. I also had the Ulmer machining done to the secondary and I am running his spring as well and still it runs between 82-85 on hard packed trails and about 76-78 on normal trail conditions. Glen was telling me the 7000 cat was running 103 all day long on regular snow pack. It may run a little more on really hard pack surfaces or ice and it may run a little less on looser conditions but over all it will run about 100 on top consistently. At least that is what he told me. Plus I remember running Team clutches years ago and liked them a lot. Great upshift and backshift, rollers instead of those friction pucks and no sheave movement which will help with the belt dust. I have also read that guys are having great luck with the gates belts as far as dust because now my brakes are so covered with dust and glazed over they do not bite well and they squeal like crazy. I would like to also look into a vented brake disc and better brake pads (maybe ceramic) that will be more consistent and not glaze over so badly. Just something I will look into over the summer but thought I would plant the seed in case someone else was wondering about the TEAM clutches on the viper.
Click to expand...

Just so you know 103 on speedo is 101-102mph on GPS. I witnessed 3 vipers maybe 4 all pull 101mph with all different clutch setups. Including mine which has Same weights you have. Just get clutching right and no need for team unless they are doing better mph than that. How about the back shift? That's why I would be interested in Team secondary.
 
Stingray- I have tried both stock and currently have the clutch machined for the 8DN and have over 3000 miles using the 8DN with no luck

Studroes- It is setup exactly as Allen did and its 6-2 with the red spring. I'm running the D&D NT helix which they claim is a 52/46. Allen looked at the helix and said it's very close to what he recommends and insists it's not the helix angle.

Cannondale- What setup are you running exactly? I'm running the magnaforce weights and have run everything from 0-1-1-0 to my current 1-2-3-3 with the Orange Pink Orange with no difference in top end. I have also been up and down on weight with the green silver green and yellow silver yellow. I'm ready to just throw the stock blue silver blue in for the hell of it just to see if I can even break 90. The peak rpms change in relation to the clutching but the peak speed does not. The best I've gotten so far was 88 with the green silver green with 1-2-3-1 but that's with the help of the Ulmer Intake, PCFC and D&D quiet can which I have only seen once but usually 83-85 is all it would do 99% of the time with the bolt on stuff. I have since removed it all and I'm back to stock.

I've added the 8.5" JT Stealth wheel kit, extra wheel kits on the rails, wahl bros. rail tip wheels and DuPont slides. I can roll the track over with 2 fingers when the belt is off so it's not the drag that's the issue. Gearing is stock. What the hell am I doing wrong that this pos can't break 90!?
 
While you guys are talking clutch changes take a look at the PB 80 for it's light weight and simplicity.

Jetpilot,

What track do you have?

Mine is a 86-88 mph sled pretty consistently right now. It will cross 90 mph, but it takes ideal conditions and can't hold it if there is any ski drag.

Sad thing is the 90 HP 900 ACE will run 89 mph speedo (81 real world) in a relatively short stretch that my Viper does mid 80's in. I regret not running it out the same day we were testing the Vipers.
 
Last edited:
TD Max said:
While you guys are talking clutch changes take a look at the PB 80 for it's light weight and simplicity.

Jetpilot,

What track do you have?

Mine is a 86-88 mph sled pretty consistently right now. It will cross 90 mph, but it takes ideal conditions and can't hold it if there is any ski drag.

Sad thing is the 90 HP 900 ACE will run 89 mph speedo (81 real world) in a relatively short stretch that my Viper does mid 80's in. I regret not running it out the same day we were testing the Vipers.
Click to expand...

I looked at the PB80 and it seems it's only for skidoo so we may be out of luck there. As far as track, I'm running the LTX SE with the 137' 1.25" rip saw 2 and have 144 studs with the super pro lite double backers down the center. I realize rotational weight plays a factor but not enough to not keep it from breaking 90. It may shave a few mph off the top but the damn thing should still break 90 no sweat with a 135hp triple. A peppy 500 can run with this thing on top. It's a sad sad little machine lol. I love the handling and the low and midrange pull but for it to just fall flat like it does makes me wonder there is something going on that we are not seeing in the clutches and that's why I started this thread to see if a complete clutching change over would help things out. Allen also said there are so many inconsistencies with these things, even he can't put his finger on it. So maybe by eliminating the stock clutching all together will give us a better idea if it's truly in the clutches or the chassis design.
 
I understand there is a PB80 for the Viper. I'm in a bit of a spending freeze at the moment (plus the season is all but over) because we made extra payments on both properties so it will have to wait, but I have a quote.

For the moment put the pink secondary back in at a 6-1 wrap shim the helix and try that.
 
jetpilot785 said:
Stingray- I have tried both stock and currently have the clutch machined for the 8DN and have over 3000 miles using the 8DN with no luck

Studroes- It is setup exactly as Allen did and its 6-2 with the red spring. I'm running the D&D NT helix which they claim is a 52/46. Allen looked at the helix and said it's very close to what he recommends and insists it's not the helix angle.

Cannondale- What setup are you running exactly? I'm running the magnaforce weights and have run everything from 0-1-1-0 to my current 1-2-3-3 with the Orange Pink Orange with no difference in top end. I have also been up and down on weight with the green silver green and yellow silver yellow. I'm ready to just throw the stock blue silver blue in for the hell of it just to see if I can even break 90. The peak rpms change in relation to the clutching but the peak speed does not. The best I've gotten so far was 88 with the green silver green with 1-2-3-1 but that's with the help of the Ulmer Intake, PCFC and D&D quiet can which I have only seen once but usually 83-85 is all it would do 99% of the time with the bolt on stuff. I have since removed it all and I'm back to stock.

I've added the 8.5" JT Stealth wheel kit, extra wheel kits on the rails, wahl bros. rail tip wheels and DuPont slides. I can roll the track over with 2 fingers when the belt is off so it's not the drag that's the issue. Gearing is stock. What the hell am I doing wrong that this pos can't break 90!?
Click to expand...


Not an expert on D&D setup but I believe Studroes144 is, that being said the angle of helix you run won't work in my Viper, anything stock or above upshifts too hard. I suggest you toss the original in and if it works better go to a 46/40. Once again I don't know the D&D setup but the numbers on that helix look way to steep for the setups I do. If that setup is somehow made to compensate for that steep an angle just ignore this.
 
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