The New Secondary Brain Child Is Done And Is Easy To Do

[ATV PRO #11]

Did 300kms yesterday wrapped at 70*.
Better. Both prim/sec hot. But it was +2 all day. .05mm shims to raise belt. Sits level now.
So many post of guys seeing 80-85-90mph, not sure what I need to do to get there. Honest (gps) of 74 is all I can get. And that's holding it.

 

[blueironranger]

74-76 is about average topend with my sled on normal trail conditions, that shows as 81-84mph on my speedo. At that point the clutches are moving into overdrive with 19/41 8 tooth or 17/41 9 tooth setups. It takes a plowed ice road or a Cold day with a FIRM trail to push it through overdrive and up to the rev limiter which shows 91-92 on the speedo, low 80's GPS. I was tickling the rev limiter quite a bit in the UP playing keep up to my buddies on their 800's the 80-85-90 mph most guys post are speedometer readings

 

[Voda2000]

Those are similar to top end numbers I've seen. There is only so fast you can go with 80hp.

I able to go a bit faster when I had a 20t gear in it but it's not worth the loss in acceleration.

I shimmed the second to get the belt just up to the top, reverse seemed the same.

Shimming the primary made a big difference. I always had a flat spot in acceleration since I went to the 136" and adding two shims raised the engagement just enough to mostly eliminate it.

 

[Voda2000]

Those are similar to top end numbers I've seen. There is only so fast you can go with 80hp.

I able to go a bit faster when I had a 20t gear in it but it's not worth the loss in acceleration.

I shimmed the second to get the belt just up to the top, reverse seemed the same.

Shimming the primary made a big difference. I always had a flat spot in acceleration since I went to the 136" and adding two shims raised the engagement just enough to mostly eliminate it.

Forgot to add, my clutches were hot yesterday too but I had my son on the sled and deep snow at +2 will do that!

 

[ATV PRO #11]

That's good news. That kinda sets my mind at ease. Always feeling like I was way out with the way I was doing it with that number of 80 in my head.
I did mark prim/sec with marker and there def shifting out good.
I'm about 300rpm out on my 11300 range so it's getting better.
Fuel mileage is great too!! Couple buck less than 71rdrnr. Usually it was other way around.
I thought if I could at least match him and my old 07's mileage id be happy.

 

[MikeWalters]

If you are still 300rpm out when the temp goes back down, consider lightening up your tip weights by 1 gram.

Might be all you need to get that perfect rpm

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Rodger that bud. I was going to take a trip or two this week as temps are back to normal.
You think a 70* wrap is ok?
Or am I heading into silver spring with lower wrap?

 

[blueironranger]

looking at how your rpms pull down a bit at higher speeds I'd cut weight in the tip first, then consider a silver secondary. I'm scratching my head on why yours is doing the opposite of mine since the only difference is the 15mm vs. 15.6 rollers. The all spike out of the hole but as soon as I have traction I'm at 11,200 and it slowly creeps to 11,400-11,500 past 60mph on long WOT pulls. I know my Ultra Q needed 1 grams more weight to the tip to bring my RPM back down over my stock muffler which was about a 300rpm difference and I had to add another gram again after I had 1,500 miles on it due to the motor "waking up".

8dn10 weights - Stock secondary
Box stock need to add a 3.6 to both holes -11,200 rpm
Ultra Q @ 300 miles - 3.6 inner 4.5 outer - 11,300rpm
Ultra Q @ 1,500 miles - 4.5 both holes -11,500rpm
YVX added, green @ 60 - 11,200 pulls to 11,400 rpm

I've got a new Green spring on the way to replace the 18? year old one, and a G-B-G primary to test for lowering my engagement and a touch less force.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Excellent post with weight to what mod!!!
I'm going to pull the 4.5 and put the 3.6 in tip and give that a shot. I'm post whoring like crazy here and appreciate all the feedback from you and mike!! Hopefully it'll help the next guys upgrade and get him/her to dial in quick!!
Funny you mention that "wake up" mileage.
I felt it on my 07 AND definitely felt it with my 14. I'm pretty in tune with them as I ride a lot. Asked the local rep about it. No idea what I was talking about.

 

[jgustman]

What degree helix are you guys running? Just jumped into the Phazer scene and did the reverse secondary on a 2011 GT. found a 43 deg. Helix and secondary out of a 500SX-R. Trying to tune it as well, so far it was ok with a red spring at 60deg wrap/twist. Pulling down too much with poor back shift at 10,800 in wet heavy snow on a warm day but pulls to 11,400+ on hard pack. Think I need to add some weight to the primary and go to 70-80 deg. wrap on the helix, or try a green spring at @60-70 deg. wrap.... Having a hard time wanting to keep it. Have a '04 Viper S and '08 Apex RTX, can't get use to the lack of warp speed, and the handling for ditch banging wasn't as good as I hoped. I can throw the viper around easier.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Just man....The OP Is running a 43 with silver spring and smb primary kit. I just flipped through the 15 pages and started with an equivalent set up to mine. Been working it from there. Luckily guy I copied has been helping me dial in.

Haven't tested yet but I did scale my rivits and one of the new weights. Was surprised to find they were not equal:
48.9, 48.3, 48.4
Finding out I didn't have 3.6ers I ended up just grinding tip rivits.
All equal at 47.9
With one being half a gram out and knowing I needed to pull 1g I figured I'd start heavier.
I guess I should have scaled arms before hand, never would have thought there would be a weight variance.

Should clarify, all 4.5 rivits were spot on before starting

 

[blueironranger]

What degree helix are you guys running? Just jumped into the Phazer scene and did the reverse secondary on a 2011 GT. found a 43 deg. Helix and secondary out of a 500SX-R. Trying to tune it as well, so far it was ok with a red spring at 60deg wrap/twist. Pulling down too much with poor back shift at 10,800 in wet heavy snow on a warm day but pulls to 11,400+ on hard pack. Think I need to add some weight to the primary and go to 70-80 deg. wrap on the helix, or try a green spring at @60-70 deg. wrap.... Having a hard time wanting to keep it. Have a '04 Viper S and '08 Apex RTX, can't get use to the lack of warp speed, and the handling for ditch banging wasn't as good as I hoped. I can throw the viper around easier.

Red spring is definitely killing your lower speed rpms, green spring requires more force to open the secondary so your rpms will climb. Mine has a 41 helix and honestly I haven't tried any others except a 47* I had off my SX-600R and that didn't work well at all with my 144" track. These little four strokes seem to like 39/41/43* straight helix and which one really depends on your particular sled. I also see you have a GT, did you change your gearing yet? going from a 20 tooth to an 18 tooth will make its "seem" like you bolted on an extra 10hp! The only thing you give up is speed over 80mph, with 18t you will be out of clutch @ 80mph instead of 88 actual speed. If you never need 80mph (86-87 speedo) then consider a 17 tooth! 0-80mph on the speedo I walk away from any stock phazer I've run against, my nephews MXZ583 136", and my uncles sx chassis Vmax 600 twin. I would really like to find my old SX600R to run against, I had that sled clutched very well and from 0-80 this Phazer just feels stronger than my SX600R did, of course that was geared for 100mph and didn't have nearly the traction available my Phazer has.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Bingo!!
Power range is great.
Engagement abit high 4200-4400
Have that wot bog/1sec hesitation from dead stop. Spike to 11,500.
Hit 125 on dream, confirmed on gps.
Trail no snow, pretty much ice but did lube/load up in deep stuff before run(s)
Over 5kms, she cruised at 11,300 very easy at 110-115km/h. Exactly what I was hoping for.
After the 115-120km/h rpms did drop under wot to 11,000 steady.

Still going to tweak and tune.

Here's where I'm at:
Stock exhaust, duponts (toast, new ones go on in the morning), 6" stud boy I/O.
Primary: G-Y-G, 8dn-10 arms, 4.5 heel and 3.64 tip TOTAL
Secondary: YXV off 07 Vector, green spring, 70*


I HAVE MY YAMAHA BACK!!!

 

[Voda2000]

Bingo!!
Power range is great.
Engagement abit high 4200-4400
Have that wot bog/1sec hesitation from dead stop. Spike to 11,500.
Hit 125 on dream, confirmed on gps.
Trail no snow, pretty much ice but did lube/load up in deep stuff before run(s)
Over 5kms, she cruised at 11,300 very easy at 110-115km/h. Exactly what I was hoping for.
After the 115-120km/h rpms did drop under wot to 11,000 steady.

Still going to tweak and tune.

Here's where I'm at:
Stock exhaust, duponts (toast, new ones go on in the morning), 6" stud boy I/O.
Primary: G-Y-G, 8dn-10 arms, 4.5 heel and 3.64 tip TOTAL
Secondary: YXV off 07 Vector, green spring, 70*


I HAVE MY YAMAHA BACK!!!

I shimmed the primary to raise engagement to about 4800-5000 and the hesitation when away.

 

[Voda2000]

So on Sunday I had to move a stock Phazer and it seemed to be more "jumpy" off the line, if that makes sense.

I spent sometime reading and thinking about it. Aaen's book has a good little table in it that talks about what you want to change and what components do that. It says that for more aggressive acceleration you can increase the helix angle or decrease secondary pretension.

I'm currently running a 43* helix with the green spring at 60* pretension. I chose 60* as it seems like a similar starting point that a lot of people have been using but more with the 41* helix. With lower pretension the motor can drag the belt in faster and load the motor harder.

So if I go to lower pretension I should be able to get harder acceleration also get a few more rev at the top. Also as long as the belt is not slipping then this should reduce belt heat too.

Can someone confirm the logic?