Top Speed AND The Yamaha Apex.... Whats the dreameter sayin?

[enticer294]

Top Speed

I ran every thing the same but airbox but ran 16mm rollers last year at Rib Lake I ran 119.7 in 2500ft.

 

[Grunter]

Set-up may vary from sled to sled - but if you have most of the springs(primary & secondary) and all the weight rivets(plus some custom made ones hint: lead and brass) you can easily clutch any sled to achieve this level of perfomance in a matter of minutes...with existing helix and ramps - the curvature is not as agressive as aftermarket kits(won't shift as hard) - but we all know stock components rock pretty good in the hands of knowledgeable tuners!(for top speed anyways) I just use Olav Aaen's clutch tuning book(read it over several times) bought a gram scale and work out my own set-ups...that book is amazing! It gets quite deep in the techinical department(Mechanical Engineering) but is a solid good book that everyone can enjoy no matter what level or technical stage one is at..if you have an mechanical or enginering background it permits you to pick up quicker - but it is very well written and gives enough information for all levels of enthousiasts!!

On my 05 RX-1 fastest stock(24-38) was 126mph(dreameter out of the box) then clutched it one way and got 132mph..(using different ramps, 20 minutes work!) Then did my friends at the boat launch - he went from 118mph to 133mph(dreameter - another 20 minutes work) with a complete different set-up(stock ramps)! So there's many ways to get there!
Some set-ups will have comprimises(top speed loss for acceleration or vice versa - but depends what you are looking for..) but if your riding with buddies on long straight open trails or lakes then some aftermarket kits don't fair as well in that environment!(however some do!) Many aftermarket kits don't work in real crooked, bumpy portages between trails(engagement to high etc. and burn belts or overheat engine!)Then it matters more - so lotsa possibilities....

The best secrets out there are seldom shared(that's why private industry thrives & sell "go fast" stuff..) I have decided quite a while back that if you want to go fast - you must commit to learning and understanding clutching - once one understands - you can correct and adjust any set-up to get the most from it pretty quickly..

Personnaly I love to exploit stock(maximize it as much as I can - using minimum components(basically gearing, rivets, springs, helixes, shims, collars). A dyno print out of your set-up of course lets you know where you gotta be or one can use a "similar" print out as a basis to start...

I've never heard of anyone using the set-up I have now - but it doesn't mean someone is not using it..I could not believe knowledgeable tuners would not of tried it - or did something very similar - but just their own version of it....or even come out with something better(their own slight variation etc)

Many tuners have told me that I put way too much effort in otherwise what is the stock set-up...saying that I could get much better from custom ramps and helixes(which is true, nothing gives you acceleration like curvatures and multi angle helixes) but I use/ride my sled a lot..

If someone has a particular problem - pm me and I will try my best to help! Not often on here anymore - job consumes all my time - just need to start doing it for me now! LOL!

So while not the quickest stock sleds my friends 03 RX-1@133mph(dream meter) and my own 05 RX-1@132mph(dream meter) are not bad speeds..these were all on 24/38 gearing and Rip-Saw's..My current Apex did 129mph(dream meter - 114GPS) on 22/38 gearing and Rip-Saw...
I know I will get 135mph on this Apex with 23/38 gearing(dream meter) All I need is hard ice, colder weather and the gear as opposed to 32F, mushy snow(some hard pack) more mushy snow and warmer weather..

But personnaly, I love the 22/38 set-up so much - I really don't think I can give it up is what my problem is! 23 top gear is for sure the fastest - but I'll add that 22 is the quickest and most likely the fastest 90% of the time - just not the fastest 100% of the time..so pick your poison..

 

[Grunter]

so is the mono skid that much faster than the ck skid, cause i see all the mph's stated with 22/38 gearing and i'm no where close, my sled has the ck skid and the stock 1 1/4 trackin it. i have all ulmers stuff-clutching, air box, pc111 and ignition and the anchor comes out at 118mph on the speedo, doesnt matter if its on hardpack or ice, its quick to get there then it seems to run out of gear to me

Scotty - send me a pic of your suspension - sounds like you may be "sticking" or either you are not revving quite right or both etc..

I have 18 wheels in my skid - so I don't stick - you must assure you do not stick...(short Apexes are notorious for sticking) LTX's fair much better.

Last year LTX's beat me a few times(not by much but they did -> 3-4 mph) - so I addressed friction and they are no where close now!

118mph(dream meter is like 103mph GPS maybe 104 etc..) so you have lotsa gear left(=lotsa fun available) - if you doubt - through magic marker lines on both your secondary and primary and e-mail those results to me!

From what your telling us - hp is not your problem - so it's either clutching or sticking I would say...

 

[stone88]

Dan I hope that was not directed at me - and at no point have I seen you post your modified proline kit details, and I haven't seen any of your friends sleds as fast as yours because you have given them your set up. I know back in the Mach Z days you were pretty tight lipped about your set ups - bikeman pipe mod and what clutching you had the first time we met up. You like being faster then others and like to keep it that way too.

I have shared my expeirence with what I found with gearing - as far as clutching goes - I like to win races and anyone can buy a kit off the shelf - ther's few that can put it all together - and fewer who know how to clutch - sometimes we learn just by fluke by trying something. You don't see any of the performance guys posting their clutching - you buy if it you want it. I've bought and tested with Ernie, in the summer on the asphalt we would make change after change after change - on the ice we pull the sleds apart and test and test - that's how we get fast. Anyone can do it - its all about learning.

I think everyone knows exactly what im running for clutching(PROLINE)


So what is it a proline or your own setup, make your mind up?


....i have also "spent tons of money" on clutch parts and always came back to the proline kit. I just havent posted PL kit in open forums cause i agree that would be wrong to John...its not like im using parts i know the angles or numbers of....all i know is they are DPYR weights since that is the only obvious part of kit. the rest is just colors or say PL on them.


there is a big difference between KITS and you guys doing your own clutching ,mainly the fact with kits we have no idea what is in them for the most part....if i was doing my own clutching and had a good setup i would be the first to tell everyone,it would be great to get the credit for it!....i dont get the whole secrecy thing,i think it makes people look childish

So why don't you tell everyone so we can give credit where credit is due, we don't want you to look chidish. LOL




actually,and why even come on a forums site if you arent gonna share info?

some people share and some dont....not a big deal really,its just what these forums are about IMO.

JMO
Dan

 

[stone88]

so is the mono skid that much faster than the ck skid, cause i see all the mph's stated with 22/38 gearing and i'm no where close, my sled has the ck skid and the stock 1 1/4 trackin it. i have all ulmers stuff-clutching, air box, pc111 and ignition and the anchor comes out at 118mph on the speedo, doesnt matter if its on hardpack or ice, its quick to get there then it seems to run out of gear to me

I personally believe the ck is a quicker skid but the mono is faster for top end as I owned an 06 Rtx (mono) and an 07 Rtx (ck) and the 06 was always faster equally geared and clutched by as much as 2-3 mph. I'm talking about wide open as far as you can hold it speed, condition for condition.

 

[ScottyD]

so is the mono skid that much faster than the ck skid, cause i see all the mph's stated with 22/38 gearing and i'm no where close, my sled has the ck skid and the stock 1 1/4 trackin it. i have all ulmers stuff-clutching, air box, pc111 and ignition and the anchor comes out at 118mph on the speedo, doesnt matter if its on hardpack or ice, its quick to get there then it seems to run out of gear to me

Scotty - send me a pic of your suspension - sounds like you may be "sticking" or either you are not revving quite right or both etc..

I have 18 wheels in my skid - so I don't stick - you must assure you do not stick...(short Apexes are notorious for sticking) LTX's fair much better.

Last year LTX's beat me a few times(not by much but they did -> 3-4 mph) - so I addressed friction and they are no where close now!

118mph(dream meter is like 103mph GPS maybe 104 etc..) so you have lotsa gear left(=lotsa fun available) - if you doubt - through magic marker lines on both your secondary and primary and e-mail those results to me!

From what your telling us - hp is not your problem - so it's either clutching or sticking I would say...

i know i'm not sticking, i added some wheels to the skid at the rear to stop the slider wear there, now the sled rolls good, my revs are right on 10,800

 

[RacerDave]

On very hardpack lake running and only enough fluff for slide lube I often seen 135 on the dreamo in 1+ mile running. Never had a gps with me

Top speed on the Apex is the one thing I really miss.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

 

[snerkman]

so is the mono skid that much faster than the ck skid, cause i see all the mph's stated with 22/38 gearing and i'm no where close, my sled has the ck skid and the stock 1 1/4 trackin it. i have all ulmers stuff-clutching, air box, pc111 and ignition and the anchor comes out at 118mph on the speedo, doesnt matter if its on hardpack or ice, its quick to get there then it seems to run out of gear to me

In my earlier post, I noted that 118 on the dreamo was 102 on gps. That was the only time I had the gps with me. I never posted the conditions of that run. Now, I bought my Apex used (from Kip at Pat's) and I assume it is box stock. Kip had sold it new the year before and then taken it back on trade. He knew the guy well and didn't mention anything about changes/mods. That 118 dreamo run was on a trail by Grand Marais last April. Temps were in the 30's, snow was soft, trail had some bumps, wasn't pinned and wasn't a very long run. I didn't notice the rpm because I was busy watching the trail and hoping I didn't hit some bigass bump I hadn't seen before. I know there's more to be had and am looking forward to trying again in better conditions.

 

[stone88]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

Dan you just don't get it I would never post my set up that I spend countless hours and lots $ to get. Thats why I don't buy clutch kits because how do you fine tune something you don't really know the angles of or spring rates. You are wrong about me helping other people on this site I just don't post everything on this site because everyone has there own way of doing things especially when it comes to clutching, just ask Turk.
As a matter of fact I apparently have already helped you by you wanting to change to the 24 tooth gear why would I post that if I didn't believe the 24 works better for our style of riding, once you gear down you must have better traction or you just wasted your time.. I post on some things and not on others because you get the believers and then you get the guys who think your nut's so why bother.
Right now I am in the midst of helping another ty er on his PC111 setup for his S/C sled as I am running it on my sled this year and already have countless hours fine tuning it.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

Dan you just don't get it I would never post my set up that I spend countless hours and lots $ to get. Thats why I don't buy clutch kits because how do you fine tune something you don't really know the angles of or spring rates. You are wrong about me helping other people on this site I just don't post everything on this site because everyone has there own way of doing things especially when it comes to clutching, just ask Turk.
As a matter of fact I apparently have already helped you by you wanting to change to the 24 tooth gear why would I post that if I didn't believe the 24 works better for our style of riding, once you gear down you must have better traction or you just wasted your time.. I post on some things and not on others because you get the believers and then you get the guys who think your nut's so why bother.
Right now I am in the midst of helping another ty er on his PC111 setup for his S/C sled as I am running it on my sled this year and already have countless hours fine tuning it.

that is awesome!.....thats what these forums are all about,helping eachother.

happy new year!
Dan

 

[machzrobbie]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

"Childish" has made alot of Venders alot of money -"childish" has had you wanting a supercharger, installing Nitrous and blowing up. You and almost every other sledder likes being faster, winning races just as much as the next guy. I love being the first one down the lake - compition makes us go faster, learn more and work harder. I share alot of info(some of it even with you) - expeirence I have obtained through alot of hard work and time. Just because I don't post a clutch set up on a public forum to people I don't even know doesn't make me childish in my opinion. I have talked on the phone with 3 different TY'ers this week about different things - sharing and helping people. Just because its not posted doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ernie is in the process right now of helping someone with a power commander on a supercharger behind the seens. I think that posting speeds, video's helps people see that something is possible - handing over a clutch set up teaches people nothing - if someone wants to come on the ice and learn - I'll be the first to help - I met Ernie that way - on the ice on lake Simcoe with my mach Z - he took his clutches off his sled and bolted them on mine - and I have learned a ton from him ever since.

Call me what you want, you have your opinion - you ever want to see how my clutching works pull up beside me on the lake and I'll show you. Hopefully I'll win!!!

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

"Childish" has made alot of Venders alot of money -"childish" has had you wanting a supercharger, installing Nitrous and blowing up. You and almost every other sledder likes being faster, winning races just as much as the next guy. I love being the first one down the lake - compition makes us go faster, learn more and work harder. I share alot of info(some of it even with you) - expeirence I have obtained through alot of hard work and time. Just because I don't post a clutch set up on a public forum to people I don't even know doesn't make me childish in my opinion. I have talked on the phone with 3 different TY'ers this week about different things - sharing and helping people. Just because its not posted doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ernie is in the process right now of helping someone with a power commander on a supercharger behind the seens. I think that posting speeds, video's helps people see that something is possible - handing over a clutch set up teaches people nothing - if someone wants to come on the ice and learn - I'll be the first to help - I met Ernie that way - on the ice on lake Simcoe with my mach Z - he took his clutches off his sled and bolted them on mine - and I have learned a ton from him ever since.

Call me what you want, you have your opinion - you ever want to see how my clutching works pull up beside me on the lake and I'll show you. Hopefully I'll win!!!

holy crap you guys kill me...you know full well you would never tell anyone your setups....you just show up at radar runs,or pull up on the lake as you say and "must" win.....then you are happy.

well that is cool but that is not how i am....when i make mine fast i will show or tell anyone what i have done....i have posted things and had people come to my lake and they have all seen my setups for themselves. I even work on all my buds clutches for them if they do not have the tools.

honestly this thread has turned into a VERY CHILDISH thread and I feel terrible that it got hijacked by people who dont want to help anyone on this site....

so I am done replying to people who will never share their setups,after all that is what this site is for....a few posts back i asked you about timing and you didnt help,i asked you for any tricks or tips and you said flat out you wont tell your secrets...

so honestly,why do you even come onto this site?.....to just take take take and never contribute?????

lets just call it a day,you guys are the way you are and wont help anyone on this thread,and many of us who dont know as much who need help dont need to hear about how great your sleds run but wont give any help.

happy new year guys!
Dan

 

[stone88]

Ernie(stone88) and Machzrobbie....

everyone i have ever talked to knows you guys will never talk about your setups...not a big deal to me but i dont get why you bother posting on a forums site if you dont want to share.

as i said several times....everything i have in my sled is known,ive talked about it before and even posted it before,and anyone who PMs and wants to try my setup i have given it to.

as I said before,from what everyone who knows ernie and robbie has told me over the yrs,you guys are top secret about your clutching(robbies words above) which IMO is why we are all on here.

my setup is apparently not nearly as fast as yours since you posted up your radar speeds which are incredible....why would you post your speeds but then not want to tell people what you did to achieve those speeds?....that IMO is what we are here for.

everytime i have ever radared decent speeds I get PMd to death about what i do to get there,and I have helped litterally hundreds of TY members with any tricks i have found over the yrs,i think anyone on this site knows that.

have you EVER HELPED ANYONE WITH CLUTCHING ON THIS SITE ????????

since robbie gets all your expertise cause he is your buddy,why dont you guys post it all up and then you take all the credit with the fastest radar clutching.....If i was running those speeds i would be posting it up everywhere.

you apparently have a gift with tuning,so why not share that with people?......once again,this is what i dont get about this sport,i see this time and time again. Guys wont share there stuff for what?,,,,to win a race down a lake?....LOL....see why i used the word "childish" now?

Dan

"Childish" has made alot of Venders alot of money -"childish" has had you wanting a supercharger, installing Nitrous and blowing up. You and almost every other sledder likes being faster, winning races just as much as the next guy. I love being the first one down the lake - compition makes us go faster, learn more and work harder. I share alot of info(some of it even with you) - expeirence I have obtained through alot of hard work and time. Just because I don't post a clutch set up on a public forum to people I don't even know doesn't make me childish in my opinion. I have talked on the phone with 3 different TY'ers this week about different things - sharing and helping people. Just because its not posted doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ernie is in the process right now of helping someone with a power commander on a supercharger behind the seens. I think that posting speeds, video's helps people see that something is possible - handing over a clutch set up teaches people nothing - if someone wants to come on the ice and learn - I'll be the first to help - I met Ernie that way - on the ice on lake Simcoe with my mach Z - he took his clutches off his sled and bolted them on mine - and I have learned a ton from him ever since.

Call me what you want, you have your opinion - you ever want to see how my clutching works pull up beside me on the lake and I'll show you. Hopefully I'll win!!!

holy crap you guys kill me...you know full well you would never tell anyone your setups....you just show up at radar runs,or pull up on the lake as you say and "must" win.....then you are happy.

well that is cool but that is not how i am....when i make mine fast i will show or tell anyone what i have done....i have posted things and had people come to my lake and they have all seen my setups for themselves. I even work on all my buds clutches for them if they do not have the tools.

honestly this thread has turned into a VERY CHILDISH thread and I feel terrible that it got hijacked by people who dont want to help anyone on this site....

so I am done replying to people who will never share their setups,after all that is what this site is for....a few posts back i asked you about timing and you didnt help,i asked you for any tricks or tips and you said flat out you wont tell your secrets...

so honestly,why do you even come onto this site?.....to just take take take and never contribute?????

lets just call it a day,you guys are the way you are and wont help anyone on this thread,and many of us who dont know as much who need help dont need to hear about how great your sleds run but wont give any help.

happy new year guys!
Dan

You are starting to remind me of a 5 year old that wants a toy and won't stop jumping up and down and screaming till he gets what he wants, now thats childish.Why would I tell you my secrets if I did it wouldn't much of one if I did so here it is in plain English for you, " I WILL NEVER TELL YOU ANYTHING" is that simple enough for you.
Have a Happy New Year.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

You are starting to remind me of a 5 year old that wants a toy and won't stop jumping up and down and screaming till he gets what he wants, now thats childish.Why would I tell you my secrets if I did it wouldn't much of one if I did so here it is in plain English for you, " I WILL NEVER TELL YOU ANYTHING" is that simple enough for you.
Have a Happy New Year.

thanks for all your contribution to all your fellow TY members....and happy new year to you Ernie.

Dan