Tuner Question

[Sevey]

Mounted a pair of Stud Boy shaper bars with 6" carbides on a set of Tuners this weekend. Plan on running them this year.

I wanted some comments from guys that use an aggressive shaper bar on their Tuners and what they have experienced - With the increased depth, is the steering effort too much? and How is handling?

A round bar with carbide doesn't come close to how deep a shaper bar sits on the bottom of these skis.....

Look forward to the feedback.
MS

 

[grizztracks]

Are you going with Tuners instead of the Split Rails that you list in your signature. If so, why the change. I never ran Tuners on the Nytro but I did run Kimpex Arrows and Ski Doo Pilots both with Shaper bars. I didn't like either one due to their inconsistency. The Tuners, which I've ran on my Viper are very similar to the Arrows and tend to lighten the steering on the trails but I found with the Shaper bars the sled at times had a hard time pushing through the skis with an unstudded ripsaw track.

 

[Pstn head]

I ran a nytro with tuners and both bars inside and out were shapers 6" and found they worked great, good bite in the corners and not hard to steer at all. I ran the same setup on my viper. The tuners work good on the nitro's gets rid of the twitchyness I think you'll be happy with them.

 

[Sevey]

Hi Grizz,
I have run Split Rails for 7 yrs and have no complaints. I think the design has a ton of merit and has helped the Nytro. However, I find the way they are put together to be cumbersome (disassembling them is not easy) and they are not easy to maintain. They really aren't meant to be taken apart with any regularity, but I had the bushings replaced 3 yrs ago, then I had one two ski rubbers work their way under the spindle and had to take them apart 2 yrs ago to fix it and now the skis are wore and need replacing. Each time it was apart I always discovered cracked bushings.

The reason for switching is - plastic skins are now wore down, the bushings are cracked and the main locking bolts (with the 3 holes) are oval'ed (because the special tool to insert keeps slipping off) making them tough to tighten/loosen. So by the time you add up the cost to refurbish its significant. I have tuners ready to go, on the old spindles, I just need to add the carbides. So - I was interested in the combinations others have used. I ran two shaper bars on the split rails with 6" of carbide and they worked great. I am curious so see comments on the Tuners. The plan is to run them this season. If they are a detriment I will bring the Split Rails back, if the difference is neglible - I will leave the Tuners. Need snow to see......

Pstn Head,
Thanks for the comments about the steering effort, that's what I was looking for.

MS

 

[grizztracks]

I'm familiar with the issues the split rails have. A friend was running them on his Nytro and liked them but constantly fought those rubbers falling out. I worked on them a few times and they are difficult to deal with those stupid mounting pins and bushings. Even with the split rails I don't think his Nytro ever handled as well as mine with Curves installed. I've ran many setups on the Nytro and so far the only skis that proved to handle with predictable performance in most all conditions is the Curves. The duel keel skis do tend to reduce steering effort and darting but they handle poorly in deeper or loose conditions. I had no confidence in them because they drastically changed as conditions changed. They railed corners at times but just when I thought I knew how hard I could push them they'd blow through a corner. I don't like unpredictable setups and would rather run skis that have a slight push as long as it was consistent. In fact I was able to make the older Yamaha single keel skis work better than the dual keels. Let us know what you think after running the tuners and if your not impressed I'd forget going back to the split rail and give the Curves a try.

 

[Sevey]

Hey Grizz,
I have noticed in the past that you ran Curves on your Nytro and wondered how they would be.
I would have thought that a beefy single keel ski (Curves or C&A) would still be twitchy on a Nytro and push like crazy?
Questions - what kind of a carbide do you use? and How are they on a packed surface?

With their shape I would imagine on loose snow-trail-conditions they would handle pretty predictable.
I have tried them on my friends Cat 7000. But its not apples to apples. His sled handled well, but I noticed the front steered a touch heavy - it had good grip on the trail though. I would have played with the centre shock a bit to lighten it up if it were mine.
Thanks
MS

 

[grizztracks]

It's hard to beat the Curves on a Nytro for predictable performance with little to no push in the corners. I run the 6"round bars that Curve sells and recommends for their skis. I've tried the Shapers on the Curves which work well but for some reason don't last. There are a lot of Curve users out there now using the Woody dual carbides. I never needed to go to that extreme on the Nytro but my Viper tends to have a slight darting issue with the Curves installed so I'll be giving the Woodys a try this season. I didn't think the Curves added much more steering effort compared to the other skis I've tried but I also added a steering relocate when I installed the Curves on the Nytro.

 

[Sevey]

Good luck with the Woodys dual carbides. My friend has them on his C&A's on his Viper and they felt pretty smooth but I used them briefly on my Nytro on stock skis and found they increased steering effort, pushed and were hard on fuel mileage so I changed. I would have thought a really good 6-8" carbide on Curves or C&A's would have been the optimum instead of that big blunt bar. You will have to write about what the difference is like when you get them out.

MS

 

[porkchop]

Stud Boy 4" in/ out, sled corners fine for me.
Wife has Slydog with Bergstrom triple points, would rather steal my skis or run stock....

 

[Sevey]

Hey porkchop
Do your skis steer heavy? Or do you consider them fairly nimble - assuming you aren't built like 'The Rock'.
Ms

 

[porkchop]

No, nimble is a good analogy for it.
Regular carbides, not shapers though but still hold a corner.
Wife's XTX is heavy steering- different set up than mine though.

 

[herndonp]

I ran the tuners for a couple of years. I started with 2 and 4 for carbides and then 6 and 6 and finally settled on 4 and 4. The problem as Grizz alluded to was there inconsistency. sometimes they would stick a corner and other times push thru to on coming traffic. After a couple of close calls I finally switched over to the curves with the 4" carbide. They go where you point them, but did in my case increase steering effort. I have the Mountaintech 43+2 a arm kit and that may have added to steering effort. I have made additional changes to the a arm kit as far as caster and camber and they are not as bad now,but still more effort than the tuners.

Pete

 

[Sevey]

Pete,
Were you using round bars or shapers on the tuners? And
What kind of carbide are on the curves - shaper or round bar?

The stud boy shaper bars on the tuners will be interesting. Those bars look aggressive on the bottom of the skis.

Your comment about the curves was my first impression of them on my friends cat 7000 (never got a chance to play with them cause it's not my sled obviously). Do you think by playing with the centre shock you can minimize the steering effort while keeping the grip and performance ? And maybe front shock spring tension as well?

Thanks
Ms

 

[herndonp]

They were the yamaha round bar with carbide inserts. Then they were the woodys 4" round bars made for the tuners. I actually tightened the front shocks springs some and that helped with some of the steering effort. I leave the center shock at 5mm preload and limiter straps all the way out.

Pete

 

[yamadoo]

I ran the tuners for a couple of years. I started with 2 and 4 for carbides and then 6 and 6 and finally settled on 4 and 4. The problem as Grizz alluded to was there inconsistency. sometimes they would stick a corner and other times push thru to on coming traffic. After a couple of close calls I finally switched over to the curves with the 4" carbide. They go where you point them, but did in my case increase steering effort. I have the Mountaintech 43+2 a arm kit and that may have added to steering effort. I have made additional changes to the a arm kit as far as caster and camber and they are not as bad now,but still more effort than the tuners.

Pete

I think the inconsistency you speak of is snow condition related. The tuners often seem to float up on loose snow and lose bite variably.
I have had to learn to watch for this closely. They track well on hard pack, push but consistent in deep snow but more variable in few inches of loose snow.
I like them for what they are great at - straight quiet front end on groomed trails for long days of high mile cruising. No dart no hunt just cruise down the trail.
Certainly not a high performance rail in all conditions ski, I have had these and they are twitchy going down the trail but oh do they turn.
That was my preference when younger, now I like the tuners.

My two cents