Ultimax is inconsistent on team clutches

[fourload]

XS is working great on my sled. dropped about 500 rpm when new. With some miles some of the revs come back. Maybe 200 or so loss! Not a speck of dust on my white panels!

 

[KnappAttack]

XS is working great on my sled. dropped about 500 rpm when new. With some miles some of the revs come back. Maybe 200 or so loss! Not a speck of dust on my white panels!

Your using all stock clutching I think front and back?

I found the same this last week while trying some stock stuff back in the clutch while trying some lower HP stock muffler flashes. About a 200 RPM swing between the two belts on same day testing/logging.

I find a larger swing of RPM on the bigger tunes and Dalton ramps, more like 400-500 RPM. Even being down in RPM the XS is the same or better MPH as long as you are not out of gear yet.

 

[yamamarc]

As for ultimax and the team clutches it does not work well at all!!!!! The inconsistency was unreal one run I was turning 8400 the next run I would be in rev limiter. Even my top speed was only 105 mph! I rode all day with the belt with no improvements .
I put a brand new cat belt the next day and we did about 300km at rpm were right on the $$$ and held the same rpm all day. My top speed increased to
206km/h on the 270 tune
I am sticking with the cat belt since I know for sure I can dial it in and rpm will be stable

 

[RAMSOMAIR]

Sorry I hijacked your thread Marc.

 

[Hammer70]

I've been testing the XS belt for 250 hard miles now, and I actually got to ride 100 miles yesterday with some fresh snow we received. I tested until I was blue in the face and wore the threads out of my clutches I tired so many different setups the last few weeks. I tried stock muffler setups, performance muffler setups and everything in between. I have the clutches running so cool and happy with the XS belt its silly, didn't ever think I'd find it with the SideWinder clutches, and had it not have been for the XS belt, I don't think I ever would have found the consistency on the big tunes. I've run it in warm and now cold temps and am confident it's going to work very well for me.

I'll say that Ultimax XS belt has saved me from driving my sled over with a dozer and crushing it. I've put the Winder clutches back on my sled and am actually planning to stick with them for the foreseeable future. I find the XS belt much more consistent, far quicker and faster speeds to a set distance. I haven't held it or found a spot to run the gears out yet, but don't see that it would be any different in top end unless its not turning the RPM. It actually shifts out farther on the primary than the 8JP. I have found I can now go back to light secondary springs using the XS belt and no longer need to use extra heavy secondary springs to keep a hold on the belt. I made 7 back to back passes yesterday on the BIG tune and belt temp is 145F, the inside sheave on the primary was 107* and the secondary was 90*. You just can't get any cooler and happier than that.

I've tried all types of tunes the last two weeks and too many clutch setups to count, my drill press scale got a workout testing primary springs and secondary pressures. I learned lots about the XS belt and the 8JP belt. I found using stock clutching on low HP tunes that there is not as much difference between the two belts, but more aggressive weights see more of a RPM swing between the two belts, the 8JP and the XS.

I was able to really lighten up all the pressures on the secondary and the primary for the XS belt.

If you are seeing inconsistent RPM swings on the XS belt I'd guess you are trying to over pinch it with too much pressure. Try backing off on the secondary pressure and primary weight. It will get the temps inline and allow it to shift up and down the sheaves like it should. And your primary rollers will thank you too!

Don't be afraid to try a lighter setup front and back, trust me, it will reward you when you get the balance right.

Well I’m glad to see all your hard work and research has been working out for you knapp great information you provide TY I appreciate it

thanks Pan

 

[yamamarc]

Sorry I hijacked your thread Marc.

All good my friend the more info out there the better for all of us!!!
Ultimax does work awsome on yamaha clutches!! I seen it on Pan's and other friends and customers tuned Yamahas!! Ultimax just doesn't seem to work well on team clutches!!
I witnessed Pan hit 132 mph last season with 22 41 gears and a ultimax belt and his rpm stay consistent!! I needed to try ultimax on my team clutches to see if i would get the same results!!

 

[KnappAttack]

All good my friend the more info out there the better for all of us!!!
Ultimax does work awsome on yamaha clutches!! I seen it on Pan's and other friends and customers tuned Yamahas!! Ultimax just doesn't seem to work well on team clutches!!
I witnessed Pan hit 132 mph last season with 22 41 gears and a ultimax belt and his rpm stay consistent!! I needed to try ultimax on my team clutches to see if i would get the same results!!

I think it would if you tuned the clutches for it. Turboflash is doing well with it along with a host of others. Ron Ward has kits specially tuned for it on the Cat clutches...

 

[yamamarc]

I think it would if you tuned the clutches for it. Turboflash is doing well with it along with a host of others. Ron Ward has kits specially tuned for it on the Cat clutches...

I hear ya! But I don't feel the need to clutch for the ultimax when the cat belt works perfectly! I gave the ultimax a shot and it did not work on my sled
I have ran with other cat guys with different set ups including Ron's torsional kit and did not see any gains or advantages! Last season I did over 3000km on my original cat belt mostly on 270/300 tunes and I was not easy on it!!
Remember I am a high milage trail guy not a racer looking for millisecond advantages.

 

[1nc 2000]

I've been testing the XS belt for 250 hard miles now, and I actually got to ride 100 miles yesterday with some fresh snow we received. I tested until I was blue in the face and wore the threads out of my clutches I tired so many different setups the last few weeks. I tried stock muffler setups, performance muffler setups and everything in between. I have the clutches running so cool and happy with the XS belt its silly, didn't ever think I'd find it with the SideWinder clutches, and had it not have been for the XS belt, I don't think I ever would have found the consistency on the big tunes. I've run it in warm and now cold temps and am confident it's going to work very well for me.

I'll say that Ultimax XS belt has saved me from driving my sled over with a dozer and crushing it. I've put the Winder clutches back on my sled and am actually planning to stick with them for the foreseeable future. I find the XS belt much more consistent, far quicker and faster speeds to a set distance. I haven't held it or found a spot to run the gears out yet, but don't see that it would be any different in top end unless its not turning the RPM. It actually shifts out farther on the primary than the 8JP. I have found I can now go back to light secondary springs using the XS belt and no longer need to use extra heavy secondary springs to keep a hold on the belt. I made 7 back to back passes yesterday on the BIG tune and belt temp is 145F, the inside sheave on the primary was 107* and the secondary was 90*. You just can't get any cooler and happier than that.

I've tried all types of tunes the last two weeks and too many clutch setups to count, my drill press scale got a workout testing primary springs and secondary pressures. I learned lots about the XS belt and the 8JP belt. I found using stock clutching on low HP tunes that there is not as much difference between the two belts, but more aggressive weights see more of a RPM swing between the two belts, the 8JP and the XS.

I was able to really lighten up all the pressures on the secondary and the primary for the XS belt.

If you are seeing inconsistent RPM swings on the XS belt I'd guess you are trying to over pinch it with too much pressure. Try backing off on the secondary pressure and primary weight. It will get the temps inline and allow it to shift up and down the sheaves like it should. And your primary rollers will thank you too!

Don't be afraid to try a lighter setup front and back, trust me, it will reward you when you get the balance right.

I am running 70.7 grams in primary on the 270r tune with sidewinder clutches.
On my second set of primary rollers this winter.

 

[Turboflash]

Not slipping in cluthes.

All good my friend the more info out there the better for all of us!!!
Ultimax does work awsome on yamaha clutches!! I seen it on Pan's and other friends and customers tuned Yamahas!! Ultimax just doesn't seem to work well on team clutches!!
I witnessed Pan hit 132 mph last season with 22 41 gears and a ultimax belt and his rpm stay consistent!! I needed to try ultimax on my team clutches to see if i would get the same results!!

Hey yamamarc - I beg to differ on consistency of XS belts on Team clutches. Your statement might be correct for Team clutches on Sidewinders (IDK). However, I would disagree strongly with that statement for Team clutches on Cats. Since 2017 I ran a PEFI 280 tune on my ZR9000 along with 3 other TCats with same tune and same XS belt. All our sleds now have over 4,000 miles on them (sad to say) and on all 4 sleds, the clutches are in "like-new" condition and the XS belts have performed flawlessly. Extremely consistent shift-out RPM, no belt dust, cool belt temps, long life too. Never have had one blow up either. And, it's not from running them easy. We all shredded multiple Cat and Gates belts prior to moving to the XS belt. We wouldn't run anything else now. For this year, I am running PEFI Stage 4 (320HP pump gas) with same XS belts and have not had a failure yet. They are incredibly tough it seems. 82 gms @ 8900-9000.

 

[yamamarc]

Not slipping in cluthes.

Hey yamamarc - I beg to differ on consistency of XS belts on Team clutches. Your statement might be correct for Team clutches on Sidewinders (IDK). However, I would disagree strongly with that statement for Team clutches on Cats. Since 2017 I ran a PEFI 280 tune on my ZR9000 along with 3 other TCats with same tune and same XS belt. All our sleds now have over 4,000 miles on them (sad to say) and on all 4 sleds, the clutches are in "like-new" condition and the XS belts have performed flawlessly. Extremely consistent shift-out RPM, no belt dust, cool belt temps, long life too. Never have had one blow up either. And, it's not from running them easy. We all shredded multiple Cat and Gates belts prior to moving to the XS belt. We wouldn't run anything else now. For this year, I am running PEFI Stage 4 (320HP pump gas) with same XS belts and have not had a failure yet. They are incredibly tough it seems. 82 gms @ 8900-9000.

Like I said I gave ultimax a shot and did not work on my cat!! My original stock cat belt is still in great shape after 3000km of hard riding and sled being tuned at 0km!! But I decided to retire it make it a spare!! Anyone who rides with me knows I am not easy on the sled! it's all preference and I prefer the stock cat belt

 

[Turboflash]

Like I said I gave ultimax a shot and did not work on my sled!! My original stock cat belt is still in great shape after 3000km of hard riding and sled being tuned at 0km!! But I decided to retire it make it a spare!! Anyone who rides with me knows I am not easy on the sled! it's all preference and I prefer the stock cat belt

Whatever works!

 

[number1kyster]

I put 20-25 miles on it, let it cool off a couple-three times in there too, It RPMS really low early on even after break in, but then will come up and stabilize. I've clutched all over the board with it, had it as hot as 195* on a setup a couple different times, pretty much abused it, but have a nice happy setup in it now and it's nice and cool now with a balanced clutch setup.

I've been back and forth between the 8JP and the XS is hands down faster by a few MPH when clutched for and RPM brought back up where it needs to be, but be warned, you will be running lighter setups to get it right, and that may include getting a lesser base weight in the primary clutch and lighter springs in the secondary or in my case, both.

Which secondary spring are you using with the XS? Will the Dalton B/O still work on tunes 250-270hp?

 

[KnappAttack]

Which secondary spring are you using with the XS? Will the Dalton B/O still work on tunes 250-270hp?

Yes it will work, just need to get the actual pressure and wrap right. Its all about what the belt is actually seeing for side pressure. The drill press belt scale is an invaluable tool for finding out what is doing what when it comes to springs, wrap and coil bind. Also depends on helix you are using on it too.

Its the same principal as testing compression springs at a set height.

 

[snowbeast]

I put 20-25 miles on it, let it cool off a couple-three times in there too, It RPMS really low early on even after break in, but then will come up and stabilize. I've clutched all over the board with it, had it as hot as 195* on a setup a couple different times, pretty much abused it, but have a nice happy setup in it now and it's nice and cool now with a balanced clutch setup.

I've been back and forth between the 8JP and the XS is hands down faster by a few MPH when clutched for and RPM brought back up where it needs to be, but be warned, you will be running lighter setups to get it right, and that may include getting a lesser base weight in the primary clutch and lighter springs in the secondary or in my case, both.

Hi Mike,now that you are back to stock sidewinder clutches,front and back,what helix angle do you now run? Do you still run dtya-1,s in your primary,with what primary spring now Mike. I remember you thought w/winder secondary maybe a lower angle helix,say 32. Thanks Pete