Venture Lite Running Problems

[zigblazer]

I have a few problems I'd like to get taken care of. I purchased this sled in December, good deal because it had almost 10k miles. Seems to run great most of the time. I changed oil and filter, chaincase oil, flushed coolant, replaced ign switch, replaced thermostat, new brake pads, new belt, new Woodys flat top ACE runners, and new spark plugs when I got it.

I haven't been into sleds before. I use to ride a bit in high school, but that was all I did, ride. I've had a 1996 polaris 488 for 7 years now, but only used it at home taking kids around the yard, no trails. This Yamaha is better in almost every way, but has a few problems. I've put 550 miles on it since buying.

I can't fix one problem. My knees hurt after riding a while. They don't like being bent to an angle less than 90 degrees. Nothing I can do about that, until I do have to buy another sled when my son is old enough to drive too, then I'll just get another for me.

Second problem is, that it darts like crazy. I thought it might be the aggressive carbides, so I put on a set of bergstroms with the ski savers and shims yesterday. Took it out today, not only does it still dart, and might be worse, but it is also harder to steer. I did adjust the toe, from what I read, spec is about 1/4" toe out. Mine was at 3/4" measured from the carbide bolts. I set it to 1/4" and maybe that caused it to get worse. Also the RH ski with the shim, points significantly up (15degrees ish) when the sled is supported and the skis are off the ground, while the LH ski only points up a little (5 degrees ish). Can't find any obvious bent or broken parts. But it does look like the spindle is back at more of an angle on the right than the left.

Third problem is the biggest problem for me. I'll continue on another post.

 

[zigblazer]

Lastly, and most important, is that it doesn't run right. Seemed to at first, plenty of power, but was doing a bit of popping while at light throttle or coasting. It would start and idle great cold, but warmed up it would die within 5 seconds at idle. The more I rode it, the more noticeable it was, definitely misfiring while at light throttle or coasting. 20-30mph sucked, misfiring 1-2 times a second, but hammer down and it would run perfectly. All sounded like a fuel mixture problem. I did a bit of research and found how to ground the wire near the battery so you could get in to adjust the fuel mixture. Played around and found it ran much better with the setting at -2. Next time I took it out, the misfiring was almost gone, once every 10 seconds at light throttle. And it would idle warm for 30 seconds before it died. I tried other settings, but never got better than that. 2 more rides after that, 120 miles total, nothing changed.

Wednesday went for a ride, it was almost 45 degrees out. It ran perfectly, no misfires, idled very well, though still for only about 30 seconds before it died. We put on 90 miles that was the best ride of the year, even though my rear end was sweating like crazy.

Today, took it back out by myself for a little ride after putting on the bergstrom carbides. About 20 degrees the whole time. It ran like crap, and kept changing. I think I have a sensor not reading correctly or something. Besides the darting, it was back to misfiring like crazy. I had left the wire grounded, so I tried adjusting the mixture again. Found after the second time I stopped to change it, that you can start it and run it while adjusting the mixture. So I ran down the trail, adjusting the mixture for each cylinder one at a time until it was better again. Settled back on a 0 setting for both cylinders. Ran great, a little missing still happening, but only 1 every 5 seconds again at light throttle. I stopped, shut it off, and restarted to take it out of calibration mode. Ran another 10 miles, without any big problems, just the periodic misfires. Stopped to check the time. Engine idled poorly and died after 10 seconds. I guess I didn't let it idle before when I stopped to know if the idle was better or not. I had a hard time getting it to run again, had to use some throttle to get it to rev and stay running. While it was misfiring like crazy, quickly got back on the trail to clear it out, which made it better, but it was back to misfiring 1-2 times a second. I stopped and adjusted the mixture back to -2 on both. Started right up and ran great. Still had some random misfires, but only 2-3 a minute. It also would idle normally again, at least for 10 seconds before it started slowing down.

I wanted to check what the sensors were reading, but didn't bring the sheet that said what each diagnostic number was testing and had no cell service to try to look it up. It takes a bit of cranking, but starts every time cold after 6-7 seconds of cranking. It warms right up idling, radiator feels warm within 2 minutes of running. Like I said it will idle great when first started cold, say for 5 minutes maybe, to pull it off the trailer and get everything put away. If I don't get on fast enough it will die. Cold it idles around 23-2400 rpm, warm about 1800 rpm, when it starts having trouble idling it is down around 1200 right before it dies.

I guess there is one more thing. It also is stubborn about going into reverse. Most of the time you push the button, nothing happens. Works great when you first start it up, but after moving it won't switch. So if I want to back up I usually have to shut it off, start it up, put it in reverse, back up, shut it off, and start it up again to get going. When I push the button normally, it doesn't do anything, no light, no beep, no nothing. Sometimes if I hit the button about 20 times, it will eventually go, but no inching forward, revving up or letting it slow makes any difference. But shutting it off works almost every time.

If anyone has any suggestions for any of my problems, please let me know. If I could fix the darting, reverse, and missing/idle problems this would be a great sled. The darting is irritating, but I can live with it if needed, along with the reverse problem to a lesser degree. I'll try giving more toe out again to see what that does. The bergstroms are suppose to fix darting.

The missing will drive me crazy and cause me not to ride it, therefore defeating the purpose of having a sled. I feel like most people would just ignore it as long as it stays running and goes fast when you hit the throttle, but it drives me nuts.

 

[cannondale27]

Lastly, and most important, is that it doesn't run right. Seemed to at first, plenty of power, but was doing a bit of popping while at light throttle or coasting. It would start and idle great cold, but warmed up it would die within 5 seconds at idle. The more I rode it, the more noticeable it was, definitely misfiring while at light throttle or coasting. 20-30mph sucked, misfiring 1-2 times a second, but hammer down and it would run perfectly. All sounded like a fuel mixture problem. I did a bit of research and found how to ground the wire near the battery so you could get in to adjust the fuel mixture. Played around and found it ran much better with the setting at -2. Next time I took it out, the misfiring was almost gone, once every 10 seconds at light throttle. And it would idle warm for 30 seconds before it died. I tried other settings, but never got better than that. 2 more rides after that, 120 miles total, nothing changed.

Wednesday went for a ride, it was almost 45 degrees out. It ran perfectly, no misfires, idled very well, though still for only about 30 seconds before it died. We put on 90 miles that was the best ride of the year, even though my rear end was sweating like crazy.

Today, took it back out by myself for a little ride after putting on the bergstrom carbides. About 20 degrees the whole time. It ran like crap, and kept changing. I think I have a sensor not reading correctly or something. Besides the darting, it was back to misfiring like crazy. I had left the wire grounded, so I tried adjusting the mixture again. Found after the second time I stopped to change it, that you can start it and run it while adjusting the mixture. So I ran down the trail, adjusting the mixture for each cylinder one at a time until it was better again. Settled back on a 0 setting for both cylinders. Ran great, a little missing still happening, but only 1 every 5 seconds again at light throttle. I stopped, shut it off, and restarted to take it out of calibration mode. Ran another 10 miles, without any big problems, just the periodic misfires. Stopped to check the time. Engine idled poorly and died after 10 seconds. I guess I didn't let it idle before when I stopped to know if the idle was better or not. I had a hard time getting it to run again, had to use some throttle to get it to rev and stay running. While it was misfiring like crazy, quickly got back on the trail to clear it out, which made it better, but it was back to misfiring 1-2 times a second. I stopped and adjusted the mixture back to -2 on both. Started right up and ran great. Still had some random misfires, but only 2-3 a minute. It also would idle normally again, at least for 10 seconds before it started slowing down.

I wanted to check what the sensors were reading, but didn't bring the sheet that said what each diagnostic number was testing and had no cell service to try to look it up. It takes a bit of cranking, but starts every time cold after 6-7 seconds of cranking. It warms right up idling, radiator feels warm within 2 minutes of running. Like I said it will idle great when first started cold, say for 5 minutes maybe, to pull it off the trailer and get everything put away. If I don't get on fast enough it will die. Cold it idles around 23-2400 rpm, warm about 1800 rpm, when it starts having trouble idling it is down around 1200 right before it dies.

I guess there is one more thing. It also is stubborn about going into reverse. Most of the time you push the button, nothing happens. Works great when you first start it up, but after moving it won't switch. So if I want to back up I usually have to shut it off, start it up, put it in reverse, back up, shut it off, and start it up again to get going. When I push the button normally, it doesn't do anything, no light, no beep, no nothing. Sometimes if I hit the button about 20 times, it will eventually go, but no inching forward, revving up or letting it slow makes any difference. But shutting it off works almost every time.

If anyone has any suggestions for any of my problems, please let me know. If I could fix the darting, reverse, and missing/idle problems this would be a great sled. The darting is irritating, but I can live with it if needed, along with the reverse problem to a lesser degree. I'll try giving more toe out again to see what that does. The bergstroms are suppose to fix darting.

The missing will drive me crazy and cause me not to ride it, therefore defeating the purpose of having a sled. I feel like most people would just ignore it as long as it stays running and goes fast when you hit the throttle, but it drives me nuts.

Check and clean your coil to harness connections. Maybe while its missing you can figure out which one it is by disconnecting to see if big change. Electrical connections and Hoses are all suspect especially grounds.

 

[turbogts22]

I had a similar misfire/backfire issue on one of my '10 Phazers. It ran perfect at anything past 1/2 throttle but varied a lot at lower throttle settings. It ended up having a dead spot in the TPS which I noticed while in diagnostic mode. New TPS and it's been flawless since.

On my 2013 Venture Lite I purchased recently it rarely would go into reverse. The button was completely unresponsive when pressed. Fiddling with the throttle would usually get it to work briefly. I took a look in the diagnostic mode and noticed the TPS value was at 17% at idle. I readjusted the TPS to 14% like on my Phazers and the button has been working great for the past 400 miles. I still need to rock the sled occasionally to get the gear box to fully engage but at least the button now activates the whole process like it should.

 

[Mooseman]

After checking the above, I would check fuel pressure. If it takes that long just to start, there might be a fuel issue. Try starting it with starting fluid and if it starts quicker, I'd highly suspect the fuel system. Another slim possibility is the ECU. If it doesn't have a part number on it ending in -10, then it may have been replaced with an original 2007 ECU with part number -00 which had a cold start issue and would not turn on the fuel injectors until it saw some oil pressure, which can take some time.

Steering, check for slop in bushings and linkages. One sled I will be working on soon has about 1 inch of steering slop at the handlebar. There are a number of solutions and parts described in the forum.

Welcome to the wonderful reverse system of these sleds. They are more finicky than a 3 year old at dinner. In the years that I had mine, I was NEVER able to make it work right. Could not figure out why it would do the "push the button and nothing happens". If I still had the sled, I might have made my own system of switches to shift it myself. The problem of when it would try to shift but would not shift unless you moved the sled, that is caused by too much tension on the secondary clutch by the belt. It may be alleviated by adjusting the secondary and lowering the belt into the clutch a little and having the idle speed set properly. I'd adjust it at the low end of the spec. Another thing that helps is to adjust the chain tension on the "loose" side by turning the bolt to just when you feel a little resistance and back off 1/4 turn, not finger tight as specified in the manual.

And the knee, welcome to getting old . I have the same problem. I try and sit as far back as possible, which actually destroyed that separator hump on the seat of my MP and my butt was sitting on the plastic under the foam. Wound up taking the seat apart, removing that plastic and adding more foam. And of course that only works if riding solo.

 

[74Nitro]

I had an 07 Lite in this year that would surge at lower RPM's. No backfiring however.
It was the TPS. The TPS does change up to a new part number.
Your trouble does seem more like fuel pressure as Mooseman suggests.
Check to see if there are any stored codes.

 

[turbogts22]

While your running issue may or may not be TPS related, it is easy and free to check. Mine was intermittent at first which made diagnosing more challenging. It did get worse at one point which is when I went into diagnostic mode on the gauge cluster and got lucky enough to see the dropout in TPS readings. Around 30% throttle opening it would drop down to 3% or so, go lean then backfire or surge. It was almost unridable at times.

Here's a video link showing what the TPS readings should look like. This was after installing a new one. I wish I would've taken a before video.

New video by Dean Hamer

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[zigblazer]

Thank you. I forgot to add. Before I adjusted the mixture, I adjusted throttle free play and checked the tps readings. I also adjusted chain tension, I believe I followed the thread suggestions of 1/4 turn out. And I did see the outer tie rod ends are loose and will replace them. As well as some bushing down deep in the steering system. I can see the movement but didn't think that one was bad enough to cause darting. Guess I'll start with the rod ends and re-adjust toe to see how it goes.

I'll recheck the tps, not because I think I missed something, but because it is easy and free. Maybe I'll ride it a bit and recheck warm.

I'll check my ecu number, assuming I can find it.

Since the season is about over I'll wait, but once it is done I'll pull the fuel tank back off to adjust the valves, and check coil connections while I'm there.

Is there a good way to hook up to get fuel pressure? I don't remember seeing a test port.

I did replace the belt, but did not clean the clutches. As I have read and did not know that should have been done.

I'll need to figure out the idle before I can properly set idle speed, it won't stay running on the low end. The previous owner said he was adjusting the idle speed every time he used the sled to get it to go into reverse.

 

[zigblazer]

Well I found a problem. Score points for whomever suggested TPS. Worked great at first, stupid intermittent problems. Moved slowly, moved it erratically, moved every way I could think of and it was almost perfect, one little blip down to I think 3% in all that, enough to make me keep testing. Held perfect at 14% when not touching the lever. So I ran it up to temp and tested again. Looked perfect at first, then had occasional drops between 20-30%. Not consistently, but enough to confirm a problem. So problem one solved, I think.

Only ran around my property testing so I can't confirm any change, but I did set the toe back out to where it was. I also took the belt off and cleaned the clutches out good. With the track off the ground, it shifted in and out of reverse perfectly, even after moving it. Set it back on the ground and it was hesitant. I notice the primary clutch doesn't return all the way out when it slows down, but does when the engine stops. I'm going to guess that is my reverse problem. It must be keeping a little tension on the belt after moving, but releases when you shut it off. Belt sits just a hair below the secondary at rest when the primary is fully released. I can try to degrease and pressure wash the primary to get it cleaned better when it warms up more.

ECU has F8T84971 8GN-00 0915 etched into the side. From looking at part numbers on partzilla, it looks like the 07 phazers and venture lites had an updated part number available that went to a 8GC-8591A-10-00. But I see no supersession for the 2011, shows a part # of 8GN-8591A-00-00. Neither matches what mine has etched, and for nearly $1000 I think I'll deal with the slow start.

Will need to wait to test out the darting until I get the new tie rods and bearing. Then maybe it will be much better.

I do not think the tps will fix my idle problem. Don't see how it could. Must have more than one problem going on. Idles great cold, at high idle, but not worth a crap once warm. I have turned the idle speed adjustment far in both directions and it seems to have little to no effect. Ups the idle a little, but it usually dies before I can get it turned much.

My idle problem could be related to another problem that won't go away. I had a hell of a time bleeding the cooling system. Kept getting air out of the bleed tube below the tank. I thought I finally had it all out, because the level stayed for a couple trips. Now it is low again, and I got air out again. I'm wondering if there is air trapped somewhere else, like by the temp sensor, fooling it into thinking it is colder, which is why it would run better when I leaned out the mixture. Searched everywhere and didn't find anything particularly helpful online. Guess I'll have to run it into the shop and lift parts up with the cherry picker and search for the temp sensor to bleed it there until it is all out.

​

 

[74Nitro]

Check the valve clearance

 

[turbogts22]

Check the valve clearance

That's a really good idea, I kinda forgot about that one. I've heard of motorcycles having tight valves and no idle, also the Yamaha 1049 has LOTS of valve issues. I really haven't heard of any of the Phazer engines ever needing a valve adjust but it's quite possible. That might have to be an off season project for me just to see how far off they might be.

 

[74Nitro]

That's a really good idea, I kinda forgot about that one. I've heard of motorcycles having tight valves and no idle, also the Yamaha 1049 has LOTS of valve issues. I really haven't heard of any of the Phazer engines ever needing a valve adjust but it's quite possible. That might have to be an off season project for me just to see how far off they might be.

It's easy to check them. Setting them however is a lot more work.

 

[zigblazer]

I will check valve clearances. Just have to wait until the season ends. Which should be anytime now, but we keep getting more snow. Almost 3 feet in my fields at the moment, but trails have been hit hard. There were a few bare spots Saturday, and that was right after we got 5 more inches. I think the warm days coming later this week may make the nice trails end.

I did notice that I forgot to put what year sled I have in my signature. It is a 2011 Venture Lite. I thought it was a good deal at $3,000, but after ordering the tps, ball joints, and tie rod ends I'll have an extra $1,500 into it. Most times I think I have a good deal, it works out, but sometimes not. Two years ago we bought my wife a truck to pull her horses. Skipped the good deals and went with a nicer looking truck that was appropriately priced for its age and mileage, it ended up being the biggest financial mistake we've made yet. Can't win. 1/2 ton Truck I got last spring was a good price at an auction. Now I have double what I paid into it as I'm rebuilding the engine. When I'm done I could have bought the same year/model but in mint condition for what I have into this one. Although now mine should be in better shape. But I'm tired of fixing everything I buy.

May just have to give up on deals. Start selling stuff and buy new. I know some sleds can go well over 10k miles, but they need to be taken care of. And things will wear out. Should have known better and expected less.

 

[genosis]

My 2009 had misfire or hesitation at low speed but work great at full throttle. It was annoying for 2 years and couldn’t figured it out thought it was associated with tps sensor but machine wasn’t throwing any codes. I bipassed the tors switch located at the throttle housing and machine is working perfect now. My machine never would cut out just hesitated at low speed.

 

[maim]

have you tried sucking up the limiter straps in the front of the skid a bit to see if that makes a difference for darting?