Viper wont start

[cannondale27]

Dont see how it can jump like this without damaging those splines

The Reluctor which is for ignition timing. Is just pressed on. not keyed or anything. Inertia and a loose fit.

 

[Kkurz]

The Reluctor which is for ignition timing. Is just pressed on. not keyed or anything. Inertia and a loose fit.

That is unbelievable! I hope that this problem continues to be a rarity. I still love my 7000. Not sure how Cat will continue to support them.

 

[cannondale27]

That is unbelievable! I hope that this problem continues to be a rarity. I still love my 7000. Not sure how Cat will continue to support them.

It's been this way since Nytro. I would worry more about the slop in Stubshaft splines and how that effects ignition timing with a ecu that can't seem to be programmed properly. Lot of reasons for me testing the Winder flywheel setup which is where timing belongs. Keyed solidly to crankshaft.

 

[Kkurz]

Cannondale, I hope that isn't the root of your electrical problems. You are doing some important R&D for the rest of us!

 

[74Nitro]

Answer above. This is only third time I saw this so not that many. Quality or lack of it plain and simple.

Make it four. My local Cat dealer showed me one off of 7000 as bad as the one pictured.

 

[TPAY243]

Cannondale27 i got to thinking about the whole spline thing, is it just the splines in the stub shaft that wear out or does the crank shaft wear as well. Mine seems to be making more noise than it usually does. So changing the stub shaft could help run ability even tho it has not jumped time and could be running poorly just because of wear on the splines in the stub shaft. I have about 5500 miles on my Viper with Hurricane turbo and I run the carp out of this thing. What do you think about primary clutch removal mine's been off and on alot.

 

[cannondale27]

Cannondale27 i got to thinking about the whole spline thing, is it just the splines in the stub shaft that wear out or does the crank shaft wear as well. Mine seems to be making more noise than it usually does. So changing the stub shaft could help run ability even tho it has not jumped time and could be running poorly just because of wear on the splines in the stub shaft. I have about 5500 miles on my Viper with Hurricane turbo and I run the carp out of this thing. What do you think about primary clutch removal mine's been off and on alot.

Here’s the thing. On start the position of the reluctor is critical and I am sure the slop is a factor but once it’s running the ecu is computing firing position by piston speed which is calculated. At that point the reluctor and slop in splines don’t matter much as long as ecu and programming is capable of doing the calculations. You know what I think of our ecu and programming. It’s China Cat Crap.

 

[TPAY243]

I agree the ecu and the tune are carp that's for sure. I was told that Yamaha had some say in the latest reflash but I did not have it installed yet. Mine seems to run just fine after it's started. It's just the starting part of it sometimes it starts right up and other times it has to crank, it tries to start and fumbles around and stops. Then I have to give it alittle throttle and it lites right up. It seems like it's getting worse as time goes on and the wine on the stub shaft is definitely getting louder. Maybe I will just change it and see what happens can't get any worse.

 

[74Nitro]

I agree the ecu and the tune are carp that's for sure. I was told that Yamaha had some say in the latest reflash but I did not have it installed yet. Mine seems to run just fine after it's started. It's just the starting part of it sometimes it starts right up and other times it has to crank, it tries to start and fumbles around and stops. Then I have to give it alittle throttle and it lites right up. It seems like it's getting worse as time goes on and the wine on the stub shaft is definitely getting louder. Maybe I will just change it and see what happens can't get any worse.

You could change the 0-rings behind the spider pucks and also the spider pucks. I found on my Nytro that would help reduce the noise and sometimes I could also fit the Yamaha .003 spider shim behind the spider puck without the 0-ring.

 

[TPAY243]

I agree 74Nitro the clutch has a lot to do with the noise but I just think there is more to the story here the only way to find out is to pull it apart and take a look see. I should have a lot of time on my hands the next couple of weeks riding season is just about finished here and won't be able to go back to work until road limits are lifted. Have to install new throttle cable on YXZ after I get that done I'll pull the Viper apart and see what's what.

 

[Carla 123]

More pictures

 

[Janne339]

There is a new stubshaft partnumber for -14 and -15 Viper. Whats different from the old one?

 

[TPAY243]

So if the outer timing gear(reluctor) has moved how do you know if it is right when ya put it back together. Is there a mark on the inner gear that you have to line up, i would hate to start moving things around and get the timing all f 'ed up then you would have a #*$&@ show. So looking at the parts drawing the gear on the stub shaft(reluctor) has to aling with the gear marked 22. I looked in the service manual and it shows alignment marks on the back side of the gears, i don't know how you would be able to see those unless the motor was torn apart.

 

[cannondale27]

So if the outer timing gear(reluctor) has moved how do you know if it is right when ya put it back together. Is there a mark on the inner gear that you have to line up, i would hate to start moving things around and get the timing all f 'ed up then you would have a #*$&@ show. So looking at the parts drawing the gear on the stub shaft(reluctor) has to aling with the gear marked 22. I looked in the service manual and it shows alignment marks on the back side of the gears, i don't know how you would be able to see those unless the motor was torn apart.

It only goes on one way because of the one spline that is shorter. As long as mark of reluctor is lined up with that short spline you can’t mess up the timing.

 

[TPAY243]

Yes totally understand what you saying cannondale but if that reluctor has moved or spun on the shaft would that not change the timing. Won't the gear that aligns with the reluctor have moved when the reluctor moved and not align with the spline on the stub shaft anymore. Maybe i am looking way to far into this probably pretty straight forward once I get it apart and able to see everything.