What are the best shocks for winder?

[ClutchMaster]

I usually subscribe to the "Bigger is Better" mindset, but in this case what does a thicker shock shaft actually get us?

Actually the larger diameter shafts tend to be stiffer in the small stutter bumps. The nitrogen pressure in the shock acts against the larger shaft pushing it out with more force. It will also make the floating piston move more in the bore, causing the shock to have more rate.

 

[hellflyer]

Actually the larger diameter shafts tend to be stiffer in the small stutter bumps. The nitrogen pressure in the shock acts against the larger shaft pushing it out with more force. It will also make the floating piston move more in the bore, causing the shock to have more rate.

That's why I asked Cannondale how the valving compared in the qs3 and qs3r. I noticed the shim stack in the adjuster are different from front to rear on qs3 so I bet the R's are also different.

 

[cannondale27]

Actually the larger diameter shafts tend to be stiffer in the small stutter bumps. The nitrogen pressure in the shock acts against the larger shaft pushing it out with more force. It will also make the floating piston move more in the bore, causing the shock to have more rate.

No. Larger shaft should be easier to valve for most any condition since there will be more fluid movement. Also clickers will have more effect. All things that should make the shock better except for weight.

 

[cannondale27]

That's why I asked Cannondale how the valving compared in the qs3 and qs3r. I noticed the shim stack in the adjuster are different from front to rear on qs3 so I bet the R's are also different.

I don’t have notes on the stock valving for them. Sorry. I am pretty sure the R would have much lighter/faster rebound valving which can be slowed with the adjuster the regular Qs3 doesn’t have.

 

[hellflyer]

I don’t have notes on the stock valving for them. Sorry. I am pretty sure the R would have much lighter/faster rebound valving which can be slowed with the adjuster the regular Qs3 doesn’t have.

Thanks ! Kind of what I thought. Just wonder how the rear shock compares as its essentially the same phisically.

 

[ClutchMaster]

No. Larger shaft should be easier to valve for most any condition since there will be more fluid movement. Also clickers will have more effect. All things that should make the shock better except for weight.

Yes more fluid will move behind the floating piston and past the compression adjuster. the shock will become stiffer faster due to the nitrogen pressure rising faster because of more piston movement from the 5/8” shaft displacing more fluid.

Actually there is less fluid past the shim stack with a 5/8” shaft opposed to a 1/2” shaft and more past the compression adjuster.

I recommend a 1/2” shaft shock up front for lighter, non aggressive riders, they will ride better.

 

[journeyman]

Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but since we're talking about shocks and orange sleds let me know what you think about this sled......

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Back in the day I built this 2-smoke Viper with some custom long travel Ohlin's shocks/Ti springs on the front and an Expert X 136" skid with some fully adjustable KYB's with remote resi's with help from HyGear Suspensions. It also had a 780 big bore with SLP triples.

If you've ever regretted selling a sled, this would be the one that I really regret. It rode and handled awesome along with a light weight feel and a sound that only a triple/triple can give.

I wish Yamaha would give us something with these attributes once again. V-room-V-room!

I would have loved to driven that sled! After putting 9,000 plus miles on a relatively stock Viper it would have been a hoot!

 

[Byam]

Actually the larger diameter shafts tend to be stiffer in the small stutter bumps. The nitrogen pressure in the shock acts against the larger shaft pushing it out with more force. It will also make the floating piston move more in the bore, causing the shock to have more rate.

No. Larger shaft should be easier to valve for most any condition since there will be more fluid movement. Also clickers will have more effect. All things that should make the shock better except for weight.

I think both of you are right!
Am i wrong?


Btw great discussion everyone

 

[cannondale27]

I think both of you are right!
Am i wrong?


Btw great discussion everyone

Yes both right but I disagree on the larger shaft shock having a stiffer ride in small stuff. That's a valving and adjustment issue. Just because the 1/2 in shocks Clutchmaster has ridden were better in small stuff doesn't mean that all are. I have ridden many 5/8 shaft shocks that work very well and can easily be adjusted softer than there 1/2in non adjustable counterparts the QS3r's are a good example as are just about any aftermarket shock.

 

[ClutchMaster]

Most aftermarket 5/8” shocks ride stiffer than the stockers.
Sure you can make a 1/2” shock ride stiffer than a 5/8” and vice verse, but a valving change would be needed.
Buy whatever you want I don’t really care. Most people buy these super expensive top dollar shocks and don’t even use the adjustments anyway. Most of them the calibration is so far off due to the fact people specify themselves out as aggressive riders and they aren’t. Then they complain they are to stiff.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a piece of metal with oil and gas inside, the sticker on the outside means nothing.
If you don’t like the ride of your stock shocks send them out to be revavled instead of buying adjustable shocks you’ll never adjust. M2C

 

[cannondale27]

If aftermarket rides stiffer then they need work. No doubt.

 

[Wannaviper]

Most aftermarket 5/8” shocks ride stiffer than the stockers.
Sure you can make a 1/2” shock ride stiffer than a 5/8” and vice verse, but a valving change would be needed.
Buy whatever you want I don’t really care. Most people buy these super expensive top dollar shocks and don’t even use the adjustments anyway. Most of them the calibration is so far off due to the fact people specify themselves out as aggressive riders and they aren’t. Then they complain they are to stiff.
As far as I’m concerned it’s a piece of metal with oil and gas inside, the sticker on the outside means nothing.
If you don’t like the ride of your stock shocks send them out to be revavled instead of buying adjustable shocks you’ll never adjust. M2C

In mid-season I swapped out my stock front shocks for QS3R's, and I could not be happier. IMHO the QS3R's have given me quick and easy adjustability to terrain conditions, and I found that I adjusted them regularly as the conditions of the day and the ride changed. Pristine trails are beat by mid-day, and major trails get beaten up before some of the secondary trails do, so in a typical day, the conditions change frequently. My riding buddy has the LTX-LE with "on the fly" adjustments, and he is changing them all the time. Granted, the number of times he adjusts them might be due in part to the "gimmick" factor of a switch on his handlebars, but he raves about his sled's ride, with good reason.

I am a "set them and forget them" kind of guy, and that is exactly why I didn't buy the more expensive aftermarket shocks with infinite adjustability. The difference with the QS3's is that you have only 3 choices each of which makes noticeable differences in your ride and handling, and the adjustments are super easy under almost any conditions. I know Cannondale can work magic on stock shocks, but even re-valved, I don't believe that my stockers could ever compare to the QS3R's.

 

[ClutchMaster]

https://www.carverperformance.com/home.php?cat=262

Hey Cdale will these viper shocks fit a Winder?

 

[cannondale27]

https://www.carverperformance.com/home.php?cat=262

Hey Cdale will these viper shocks fit a Winder?

Its says it will but I dont see how the description is accurate since rear and center shocks of 137 are about 1/4in longer than 129 OEM. Might just have enough travel to cover both. Call Carver.

 

[number1kyster]

Country Cat prices....

Dan

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Wouldn't the RR shocks be on the stiffer side when compared to the standard QS3 found on the Limited and T-Cat models?

I just looked up part numbers on Babbits. The QS3R is only $115 more per front shock than a QS3 from a T-cat. IMO, that is a no brainer in favor of the QS3R.

The QS3R rear shock is $290 more than the standard QS3 from a limited or T-Cat.

For those of us with the SE model, it's about $1,070 to upgrade to the standard shocks found on a ZR limited or T-cat, and about $1,957 to upgrade to an RR equivalent(Including center shock upgrade).

I'm actually pretty happy with the front suspension performance of my SE. The rear needs some work. I'm torn between getting them revalved or buying a QS3 or QS3R rear shock and throwing it in there instead.