xp vs apex

[number1kyster]

Did you guy see the new 600 DI they just came out with? 25 mpg and 1 tank of oil a season. Polaris and Cat and Yamaha should be scared. Can this kind of technology be applied to 4 strokes? I had to say it but if this engine turns out to be reliable what does Yamaha have over them?

 

[SledFreak]

Old news BRP has had this with the Evinrude E-TEC outboards. It still a 2 stroke and will only last same amount of mileage as a regular 2 stroke. So it's better on fuel.... Yamaha can make their fuelies alot better... This is just a tip of the ice-burg as far as fuel economy for a 4 stroke is concerned.... I think there will always be that battle between the 2 vs 4 strokes.... I'm not sure if you are into boats or not, but if I was going to buy a boat motor, it should would not be a E-TEC/2 stroke... It would be a Honda or Yamaha EFI... @strokes will always be finiky and less reliable reguardless of their and fuel consumptions. They are also not that much better.

 

[ReX]

So far, the REV-XPs are looking like real winners with the guys I ride with - if you're willing to live with the smoke and smell.

Sure there have been lots of problems reported on the internet, but my buddies have had next to no problems and these sleds run well. One of them already has something like 3500 miles on it too. We haven't lined them up to really see how they compare (no snow), but I can tell you the REV-XP 800R is no slouch. They are also so light that they are a blast to throw around and ride. On top of that the suspension calibration and shock valving absolutely blows the doors off what Yamaha is shipping with the Apex. These sleds ride very nicely and don't bottom out hardly at all compared to the Apex.

The one and only thing I absolutely hate about them is the cloud of blue smoke combined with the stink. My buddy used to park his Apex in his heated shop, but the REV-XP completely fills the shop with blue smoke every time he starts it so the REV-XP now gets parked outside or in a falling apart shed.

Another thing we notice is the incredible amount of vibration at idle compared to my Apex.

For those two reasons, I still consider the Yamaha Apex RTX the ideal sled for me. I park my sleds in my garage, attached to my house. There is no way my wife would accept 2-stroke smoke filling the house every time I wanted to go sledding, not to mention having to take a shower after even a short quick after dinner ride. I can revalve my shocks, re-arch the springs, tweak all of the suspension settings, etc. and make my Apex RTX ride as well as the REV-XP (the REV-XPs ride well out the door).

number1kyster, I agree - if it wasn't for the incredible 4-stroke motor over the competition, there wouldn't be much reason to ride a Yamaha.

Actually there is one additional complaint my buddies do have about their REV-XPs and that is the missing but necessary equipment. I'm talking about things like tunnel protection for slides, 3rd and 4th idler wheels (so the track will last high mileage), 4 pairs of carbides for the skis, special/expensive studs, etc. By the time they got their sleds ready to ride they had spent big $$$.

 

[SledFreak]

By a sled dollie and move it outside and close the door when you need to start it... Lets no fool our selves, the 4 strokes still put out an odor, just not near as bad as the 2 stroke. But, the smell will always be on your clothes from the smoke of a 2 stroke.

 

[rx1ryda989]

The rev xp is a great sled period. I have had the chance to ride one for approx 15 miles, and trust me, it probably is the best performing and handling sled i have EVER ridden. I really like the 4 strokes for the reliablilty and no smoke, but the suspension and handling of the rev-xp is 100% better than any yami,polari, or scrap. Yami def has alot of catching up to do, and i sure hope they do!!

 

[SumpBuster]

So far, the REV-XPs are looking like real winners with the guys I ride with - if you're willing to live with the smoke and smell.

Sure there have been lots of problems reported on the internet, but my buddies have had next to no problems and these sleds run well. One of them already has something like 3500 miles on it too. We haven't lined them up to really see how they compare (no snow), but I can tell you the REV-XP 800R is no slouch. They are also so light that they are a blast to throw around and ride. On top of that the suspension calibration and shock valving absolutely blows the doors off what Yamaha is shipping with the Apex. These sleds ride very nicely and don't bottom out hardly at all compared to the Apex.

The one and only thing I absolutely hate about them is the cloud of blue smoke combined with the stink. My buddy used to park his Apex in his heated shop, but the REV-XP completely fills the shop with blue smoke every time he starts it so the REV-XP now gets parked outside or in a falling apart shed.

Another thing we notice is the incredible amount of vibration at idle compared to my Apex.

For those two reasons, I still consider the Yamaha Apex RTX the ideal sled for me. I park my sleds in my garage, attached to my house. There is no way my wife would accept 2-stroke smoke filling the house every time I wanted to go sledding, not to mention having to take a shower after even a short quick after dinner ride. I can revalve my shocks, re-arch the springs, tweak all of the suspension settings, etc. and make my Apex RTX ride as well as the REV-XP (the REV-XPs ride well out the door).

number1kyster, I agree - if it wasn't for the incredible 4-stroke motor over the competition, there wouldn't be much reason to ride a Yamaha.

Actually there is one additional complaint my buddies do have about their REV-XPs and that is the missing but necessary equipment. I'm talking about things like tunnel protection for slides, 3rd and 4th idler wheels (so the track will last high mileage), 4 pairs of carbides for the skis, special/expensive studs, etc. By the time they got their sleds ready to ride they had spent big $$$.

They don't ride well over constant stutters, or all the xp's on tug a few weeks ago were pokers...they bounced all over at high speed...apex with shock revalved mono eats em up..unless, like I say, at least 20 of them were just out pokin...back ends bounce around a lot..one guy almost rolled right in front of me over a crossed up set of moguls. Just my opinon. Plus, my bud's TNT sucks gas at unreal rates...he's 19 yrs old and rides hard, but I don't see anyone riding hard on any two stroke getting anywhere's near 25 mpg. Then again, I'll never see 15 again on my Apex, either..lol.

 

[ReX]

They don't ride well over constant stutters, or all the xp's on tug a few weeks ago were pokers...they bounced all over at high speed...apex with shock revalved mono eats em up..unless, like I say, at least 20 of them were just out pokin...back ends bounce around a lot..one guy almost rolled right in front of me over a crossed up set of moguls. Just my opinon. Plus, my bud's TNT sucks gas at unreal rates...he's 19 yrs old and rides hard, but I don't see anyone riding hard on any two stroke getting anywhere's near 25 mpg. Then again, I'll never see 15 again on my Apex, either..lol.

Have you ridden one?

On top of that, your Apex has a custom valved shock set up for your weight, your riding style and your particular setup (no saddle bags, etc.).

I don't know how the TNT would compare as it is a lower end sled with a lower end engine that burns a lot of fuel (for the power it makes), but I'm quite sure the MXZ 800R X-package would do very well through stutter bumps. It is very well damped and doesn't have any of the "bounciness" you get when a sled doesn't have enough rebound damping. This sled has a very solid, well damped feel as far as the suspension goes. There is very little kick back, if any, over bumps. We actually built a fairly big jump (~4' high) using my plow truck and that REV-XP's suspension is very impressive - landing on flat ground. I didn't even try my 07 RTX off the jump...

 

[justinator]

The 600DI E-Tec specs have been released. Its 415lbs and makes the same power as the 600sdi but with improved mpg, 23-25 and the average rider should expect a dramatic drop in oil consumption.I think the plugs are warrantied for 3 yrs or something like that. BRP sells 300 sleds to yamahas every 100. Are we going to hear about issues with these sleds......of course we are. Plus here we are on the internet, the king of hype. My dealer here has sold over 150xps so far with more being sold every week. Out of the 150 over 70 have been 800's. 1 has been in for a broken driveshaft and we got plenty of snow here so putting on mileage isnt a problem. Yet go over on some forums and it seems like there all breaking driveshafts and blowing belts. Just like if one us was to post about yamaha slider wear issues and 30 people rspond with similiar problems.......well go on another forum after and low and behold every ty user is having problems with yamaha slides when in reality if you look at the number of ty users registered and the number who have had slide problems you'd see that it isnt really much of a problem at all. The xp800s have bad clutching that prevents full shift out. The guys experimenting with clutching and gears are picking up big numbers in acceleration and top end mph. Ya I think a 23 tooth apex on the ice will probaly pull more mph but the power to weight of the 800xp makes it a pretty hard runner to beat in a 1000ft. Now through in a 2-4 sled length gain in a 1000ft with some good gears and clutching and you got some serious catching up to do. The ski doo speedo is off 8mph, so not nearly the 12% of yammies but still not close to the gun like the f series cats and iq dragons. Rather than just bleed one color and get in pissing matches over an internet race, why dont we step back and look at some of the good things all the manufacturers have to offer since every rider is different. Some like 4 strokes and yamaha reliablity, some like great handling and light weight. Polaris has an awesome suspension and handling setup with there iq sleds and some like the adjustable seat and bars on the f series arctic cat which also provides some decent handling and ride nbot to mention the 08 f1000 which is a whole new beast compared to the 07. Very fast lake runner in stock form. If the shoe fits then wear it. Isnt it all about having fun with your friends anyway??

 

[SumpBuster]

They don't ride well over constant stutters, or all the xp's on tug a few weeks ago were pokers...they bounced all over at high speed...apex with shock revalved mono eats em up..unless, like I say, at least 20 of them were just out pokin...back ends bounce around a lot..one guy almost rolled right in front of me over a crossed up set of moguls. Just my opinon. Plus, my bud's TNT sucks gas at unreal rates...he's 19 yrs old and rides hard, but I don't see anyone riding hard on any two stroke getting anywhere's near 25 mpg. Then again, I'll never see 15 again on my Apex, either..lol.

Have you ridden one?

On top of that, your Apex has a custom valved shock set up for your weight, your riding style and your particular setup (no saddle bags, etc.).




I don't know how the TNT would compare as it is a lower end sled with a lower end engine that burns a lot of fuel (for the power it makes), but I'm quite sure the MXZ 800R X-package would do very well through stutter bumps. It is very well damped and doesn't have any of the "bounciness" you get when a sled doesn't have enough rebound damping. This sled has a very solid, well damped feel as far as the suspension goes. There is very little kick back, if any, over bumps. We actually built a fairly big jump (~4' high) using my plow truck and that REV-XP's suspension is very impressive - landing on flat ground. I didn't even try my 07 RTX off the jump...

I agree...no contest on jumping..the xp's are made for that. I'm talking 50-sometimes approaching 90 mph (many are seasonal roads) on your typical constant garbage, 1 foot + stutters, with occasional unpredictable deeper stuff...the mono has an up and down motion, no kick back like the xps. These guys were all over the place. For control, the apex is rock solid on this type of condition. Just one observation on one day. We passed many and got some fingers, but that doesn't make them a bad sled by any means. I'd never jump my apex. Not made for that.
I just don't see all the hype..every year..first the F7's, then Machz1000's, etc..they're all good in their element. Besides, just the fact we are comparing a sled that weighs 140 more pounds, with a little less horsepower, is kind of not even fair to the Yammies...the xp's should be performing TONS better than an apex, given the specifications on paper

 

[ReX]

The 600DI E-Tec specs have been released. Its 415lbs and makes the same power as the 600sdi but with improved mpg, 23-25 and the average rider should expect a dramatic drop in oil consumption.I think the plugs are warrantied for 3 yrs or something like that. BRP sells 300 sleds to yamahas every 100. Are we going to hear about issues with these sleds......of course we are. Plus here we are on the internet, the king of hype. My dealer here has sold over 150xps so far with more being sold every week. Out of the 150 over 70 have been 800's. 1 has been in for a broken driveshaft and we got plenty of snow here so putting on mileage isnt a problem. Yet go over on some forums and it seems like there all breaking driveshafts and blowing belts. Just like if one us was to post about yamaha slider wear issues and 30 people rspond with similiar problems.......well go on another forum after and low and behold every ty user is having problems with yamaha slides when in reality if you look at the number of ty users registered and the number who have had slide problems you'd see that it isnt really much of a problem at all. The xp800s have bad clutching that prevents full shift out. The guys experimenting with clutching and gears are picking up big numbers in acceleration and top end mph. Ya I think a 23 tooth apex on the ice will probaly pull more mph but the power to weight of the 800xp makes it a pretty hard runner to beat in a 1000ft. Now through in a 2-4 sled length gain in a 1000ft with some good gears and clutching and you got some serious catching up to do. The ski doo speedo is off 8mph, so not nearly the 12% of yammies but still not close to the gun like the f series cats and iq dragons. Rather than just bleed one color and get in pissing matches over an internet race, why dont we step back and look at some of the good things all the manufacturers have to offer since every rider is different. Some like 4 strokes and yamaha reliablity, some like great handling and light weight. Polaris has an awesome suspension and handling setup with there iq sleds and some like the adjustable seat and bars on the f series arctic cat which also provides some decent handling and ride nbot to mention the 08 f1000 which is a whole new beast compared to the 07. Very fast lake runner in stock form. If the shoe fits then wear it. Isnt it all about having fun with your friends anyway??

I agree, but have a slightly different take on things.

All of the sleds are fairly good these days, but all have their issues and weaknesses. I don't really consider the internet information just "hype". Some of it is, typically when a report of a single failure has occurred, but if that failure is confirmed by several others, then it is a real potential weakness or potential problem.

In general, every problem we read about happening to many owners also happens to us (me and the guys I ride with). For the REV-XPs that includes the brake lines rubbing against the secondary clutches (unless you add a ziptie to hold them back), and I'm sure we'll see some broken driveshafts. For the Apex that includes idler wheels, cracks in monoshock suspension parts, broken driveshafts and exhaust donuts burning out.

These are true issues high mileage and/or aggressive riders can expect to see with their sleds, but unfortunately all manufacturers have issues with their sleds.

What I don't understand is the constant bashing about how a sled someone hasn't even ridden is such a POS. Sleds are probably the highest maintenance toys available anywhere and they have been for the 30 years I've been sledding. This is simply a fact and Yamaha sleds are not much (if at all) better as far as the amount of maintenance is concerned.

Where Yamaha shines is with their smooth, powerful engines. The engine is a huge piece of the puzzle and it is this that makes Yamaha's sleds so attractive. I couldn't imagine using a shop dolly to drag my REV-XP in and out of my garage every day so I could work around the blue smoke and stink issue - no thanks, I'll stick with my 4-stroke.

When I look at the big picture, I'm convinced that Yamaha is truly positioned well to succeed. The Apex RTX for example, with only some incredibly easy to design improvements (shock valving primarily) is an incredible machine in every way. Same thing with the FX Nytro and the Phazer. Quite honestly Yamaha's biggest failure is in their completely obsolete shock valving. If you show the shock valving Yamaha's sleds ship with to any valving expert they would only laugh. It is so far from state of the art it is not funny. At the same time, for only a few $$ per sled, they could come up with great riding sleds that compete directly with Polaris, Cat, and Skidoo.

 

[SumpBuster]

It is all in good fun, but when we go, we go. No bars, few stops, and there is only a small group that goes with us anymore. Kinda hard to get up and walk the next day...LOL.

 

[SumpBuster]

What I don't understand is the constant bashing about how a sled someone hasn't even ridden is such a POS. Sleds are probably the highest maintenance toys available anywhere and they have been for the 30 years I've been sledding. This is simply a fact and Yamaha sleds are not much (if at all) better as far as the amount of maintenance is concerned.

Where Yamaha shines is with their smooth, powerful engines. The engine is a huge piece of the puzzle and it is this that makes Yamaha's sleds so attractive. I couldn't imagine using a shop dolly to drag my REV-XP in and out of my garage every day so I could work around the blue smoke and stink issue - no thanks, I'll stick with my 4-stroke.

When I look at the big picture, I'm convinced that Yamaha is truly positioned well to succeed. The Apex RTX for example, with only some incredibly easy to design improvements (shock valving primarily) is an incredible machine in every way. Same thing with the FX Nytro and the Phazer. Quite honestly Yamaha's biggest failure is in their completely obsolete shock valving. If you show the shock valving Yamaha's sleds ship with to any valving expert they would only laugh. It is so far from state of the art it is not funny. At the same time, for only a few $$ per sled, they could come up with great riding sleds that compete directly with Polaris, Cat, and Skidoo.

We joked about never wanting to come back as a snowmobile...with all the abuse they all go through. I agree about the shocks...the mono rides/transfers great, but the bottoming used to stink...it's much less frequent now, but I guess you can't have everything in one machine, it would seem.

 

[justinator]

The 600DI E-Tec specs have been released. Its 415lbs and makes the same power as the 600sdi but with improved mpg, 23-25 and the average rider should expect a dramatic drop in oil consumption.I think the plugs are warrantied for 3 yrs or something like that. BRP sells 300 sleds to yamahas every 100. Are we going to hear about issues with these sleds......of course we are. Plus here we are on the internet, the king of hype. My dealer here has sold over 150xps so far with more being sold every week. Out of the 150 over 70 have been 800's. 1 has been in for a broken driveshaft and we got plenty of snow here so putting on mileage isnt a problem. Yet go over on some forums and it seems like there all breaking driveshafts and blowing belts. Just like if one us was to post about yamaha slider wear issues and 30 people rspond with similiar problems.......well go on another forum after and low and behold every ty user is having problems with yamaha slides when in reality if you look at the number of ty users registered and the number who have had slide problems you'd see that it isnt really much of a problem at all. The xp800s have bad clutching that prevents full shift out. The guys experimenting with clutching and gears are picking up big numbers in acceleration and top end mph. Ya I think a 23 tooth apex on the ice will probaly pull more mph but the power to weight of the 800xp makes it a pretty hard runner to beat in a 1000ft. Now through in a 2-4 sled length gain in a 1000ft with some good gears and clutching and you got some serious catching up to do. The ski doo speedo is off 8mph, so not nearly the 12% of yammies but still not close to the gun like the f series cats and iq dragons. Rather than just bleed one color and get in pissing matches over an internet race, why dont we step back and look at some of the good things all the manufacturers have to offer since every rider is different. Some like 4 strokes and yamaha reliablity, some like great handling and light weight. Polaris has an awesome suspension and handling setup with there iq sleds and some like the adjustable seat and bars on the f series arctic cat which also provides some decent handling and ride nbot to mention the 08 f1000 which is a whole new beast compared to the 07. Very fast lake runner in stock form. If the shoe fits then wear it. Isnt it all about having fun with your friends anyway??

I agree, but have a slightly different take on things.

All of the sleds are fairly good these days, but all have their issues and weaknesses. I don't really consider the internet information just "hype". Some of it is, typically when a report of a single failure has occurred, but if that failure is confirmed by several others, then it is a real potential weakness or potential problem.

In general, every problem we read about happening to many owners also happens to us (me and the guys I ride with). For the REV-XPs that includes the brake lines rubbing against the secondary clutches (unless you add a ziptie to hold them back), and I'm sure we'll see some broken driveshafts. For the Apex that includes idler wheels, cracks in monoshock suspension parts, broken driveshafts and exhaust donuts burning out.

These are true issues high mileage and/or aggressive riders can expect to see with their sleds, but unfortunately all manufacturers have issues with their sleds.

What I don't understand is the constant bashing about how a sled someone hasn't even ridden is such a POS. Sleds are probably the highest maintenance toys available anywhere and they have been for the 30 years I've been sledding. This is simply a fact and Yamaha sleds are not much (if at all) better as far as the amount of maintenance is concerned.

Where Yamaha shines is with their smooth, powerful engines. The engine is a huge piece of the puzzle and it is this that makes Yamaha's sleds so attractive. I couldn't imagine using a shop dolly to drag my REV-XP in and out of my garage every day so I could work around the blue smoke and stink issue - no thanks, I'll stick with my 4-stroke.

When I look at the big picture, I'm convinced that Yamaha is truly positioned well to succeed. The Apex RTX for example, with only some incredibly easy to design improvements (shock valving primarily) is an incredible machine in every way. Same thing with the FX Nytro and the Phazer. Quite honestly Yamaha's biggest failure is in their completely obsolete shock valving. If you show the shock valving Yamaha's sleds ship with to any valving expert they would only laugh. It is so far from state of the art it is not funny. At the same time, for only a few $$ per sled, they could come up with great riding sleds that compete directly with Polaris, Cat, and Skidoo.

I agree that not all the information is hype but what Im saying is that in my area weve had one xp go back for a driveshaft. Take the whole state of maine and lets say theres 30 broken shafts. Now go on a forum with riders from everywhere and theres a whole lot but many will never have the issue and others will. I think the issues with sleds get blown out of proportion a bit because of the wide spread use of the net. Some problems(like donuts for example) will probaly effect every apex owner at one point but its a wear item on our machine that needs attention at one point. All the other makes have the same thing going on. I guess, just like you I cant understand why people are so quick to call something junk when theyve never tried it out. Buy what you can afford and feel the most comfortable on and enjoy your time on the snow. Winters arent that long.

 

[berge75]

Man,do poeple over rate the xp. I even though of possibly going ski-doo if the new xp was all that they where claiming,but after driving one for a weekend I'm glad i don't have one. Even the owner of it claims his '04 rev was a better sled.

 

[ReX]

Man,do poeple over rate the xp. I even though of possibly going ski-doo if the new xp was all that they where claiming,but after driving one for a weekend I'm glad i don't have one. Even the owner of it claims his '04 rev was a better sled.

Which model?

If you're comparing a REV-XP to an Apex you really need to compare the MXZ Adrenaline 800R, MXZ X 800R or GSX Limited 800R to the Apex. The lower end models are simply that, lower end models (and much cheaper than an Apex too).

They definitely don't have the smooth feel that the awesome motor in the Apex provides, but I'd be interested in knowing what you hated about them. If its the motor, I think we all agree the Apex's motor blows the doors off the 800R for smoothness, sense of premium quality, smell, sound, etc. - even though it is heavier.