YAMAHA PREDICTIONS FOR 2013

[Heritage]

Im not gonna argue with u mountain/powder riders...but I will say u are a very small percent of the market.
You probably wont see another 4 cylinder in a mountain sled.

I personally would love to see a vector xtx, and a phazer xtx.

Those of you riping on eps...dont know what ur talking about...its awesome!!! For trail riders its a great feature.
Maybe u mountain guys dont need it..but I will bet anybody that doo and cat will have it on their trail/touring sleds, with in two years.
I think the apex will be retired soon...if u turbo a vector, it is faster...so why not offer that instead??

 

[MikeWalters]

I would like to see what many Phazer riders are TRYING to do...

A little more power, more traction and a bit softer seat.

A Phazer with a 128 or 136, 95-100hp with a little more predictability in the handling department would be just awesome. Dunno, a 700cc version, or a 700cc triple 4S? I too feel they wont be going back to 2S so might as well hope for a better 4S.

I also feel a smaller sled (as silly as it sounds) with less HP would SELL (like the 600ACE). Many beginner riders, or people who just dont have $9000CDN to spend on the "entry-level" Phazer. Seriously the price is outrageous and anyone who doesnt have that kind of cash buys one of the other 3.

My .02

If Yammi could get a hold of the entry level buyers maybe they would keep coming back for Yamaha like most of us repeat buyers

 

[4x4]

I think the apex will be retired soon...if u turbo a vector, it is faster...so why not offer that instead??

If you turbo an apex it is faster than a turbo vector so why not offer that instead?

 

[HartleRacing]

I think the apex will be retired soon...if u turbo a vector, it is faster...so why not offer that instead??

If you turbo an apex it is faster than a turbo vector so why not offer that instead?

if they can turbo the vector and get 170ish HP and still ultra reliable, then they will take that route. the vector gets much better MPG, and will cut down on overhead to offer one less engine. they could do what AC does, N/A engine in the 120HP class, and turbo that same engine for the 150+hp class. makes sense to me..

i may be in love with an apex engine, but the previous statement i made only makes sense..

 

[Heritage]

I think the apex will be retired soon...if u turbo a vector, it is faster...so why not offer that instead??

If you turbo an apex it is faster than a turbo vector so why not offer that instead?

if they can turbo the vector and get 170ish HP and still ultra reliable, then they will take that route. the vector gets much better MPG, and will cut down on overhead to offer one less engine. they could do what AC does, N/A engine in the 120HP class, and turbo that same engine for the 150+hp class. makes sense to me..

i may be in love with an apex engine, but the previous statement i made only makes sense..

Exactly....think price...A turbo Apex is gonna be at least $17,000, probably closer to $18,500....Where a Turbo/supercharged Vector will be around $15,000 (still alot of money..but you get what you pay for)...my point is a super charged vector is gonna be close pricewise to what guys are paying for a non turbo apex se....and it will be MUCH faster.

I also believe the vector motor with turbo/supercharger...will spank on the cat turbo....and get better fuel economy....I mean what's the point of having a heavier 4 stroke if it gets the same gas mileage as a non dfi.. two stroke?? Believe it or not yamaha did test DFI snowmobiles in the late 90's and early 2000's.....they did not like what they saw....unlike other companies, yamaha WILL NOT release something that will cause them headaches later....Two strokes IMO are a dead deal with yamaha...I wish some of these stupid magazine editors would get it in their heads...I think wade west should slap the next snow goer guy that asks him about a dfi two stroke.

I agree the phazer needs a bit more HP...in a WARMER...more trail friendly set-up..(medium windshield, with a bigger cowl)...I would also like to see the anti engine braking, wider track, apex gauges, EPS, and a better seat...if yamaha did all that...they have an awesome first timers sled...or older adult touring model...something my wife would be comfy with...that doesn't do 100 mph.

I understand the mountain riders complains....but...I just don't see yamaha making two strokes anymore, and four strokes will not get much lighter...either turbo your 4 stroke...or buy another brand...I know if I was un happy with my yamaha, or it wasn't good for my type of riding..I would trade it in on a cat or doo...why be unhappy??? Ride what fits your riding style...why bitch about it?? Trail riders are yamaha's bread and butter...it's just what it is....they gave you guys the base machine to play with...now mod it how you like...or buy something else.

Not trying to be a jackass guys...but yamaha's core riders are mostly over 40, and TRAIL RIDERS....Ask yourself this...what was yamaha's most popular model sold this year?? The Answer...The Vector.
Yamaha is targeting the older demographic...why??? Because they have the income. Take a good look at lexus and cadillac...somebody is buying em...If we followed you mountain riders logic, we'd all be driving jeep cherokees, and cadillac , and lexis would be out of business.

Yamaha wants to be the lexus of snowmobiling...they need to get to the point where they have 20-25 percent market share to be viable.
How they will get there is anybodies question.

 

[4x4]

A factory turbo will for some surprising reason not be as good as the homemade and aftermarket turbos. It will be difficult to maintain or keep in tune or adjust. It will use an obscure off brand turbo that you can't buy parts for at NAPA or weld in your garage or even return to stock if you can't make it work. Yamaha's strength is the four cylinder engine, and that engine is the basis for every good thing in snowmobiling today. There is no future in out of balance triples which have a balance shaft to look smooth on the outside while shaking on the inside.

 

[ruffryder]

There is no future in out of balance triples which have a balance shaft to look smooth on the outside while shaking on the inside.

I don't think the triple has a balance shaft....

 

[Rich Kay]

OK, I'll jump in and keep it simple......Leave the HP levels where they are and really work on tryng to lighten the sleds up SOME cause they are 4-strokes and it is what ya give up to have the long term reliability in the power department. Then make a valid effort to put the most advanced suspension under it.The rear skids just not worth the money we pay for, and Ifeel it's the most important part of a good experience on a sled. I really like my apex in most all cases but yamaha REALLY needs to give something very adjustable and capable!!Trust me I have spent lots of time and money triing to get it right without complaining out loud in a negative way.I know there is LOTS of room for improvement because I have ridden much better sleds. We could all think of a ton of things to have on a sled then what we have but is it worth the added cost ? Most of the things I hear guys want are big dollar items The price of a sled is going to be the straw that breaks the "camels back" in this sport cause of the cost of all the other items that are needed in the sport(truck/trailer/ gas/ rent/cabin cost/gear/....) plus the state of our ecomony.I'am glad I got my apex back in 07 and paid 9500 new for it cause I can't see paying the new prices for what your getting, not because I couldn't spend more either. Yamaha keeps putting(some) features on sleds that don't justify the cost they just have loyal customers . Please .... I love my sled and would by another.....Used though. Sleds (all of them )have come a long long way for the better but my view is based on snowmobiling for over 35yrs and seeing where things are headed.

 

[couch]

Not everyone needs / wants / can afford a 300 hp beast to have fun. Lots of people here seem to ride a mix of trail but want something that is fun in the powder off trail and won't break the bank.

A decent / rounded / rider forward sled that you can ride on trail with more seat cushion / more wind protection / less inside ski lift. For off trail need less forward weight, wider skis, decent shocks, sway bar disconnect option maybe a 136" x 18" x 1.5" track for more flotation + better approach angle and a tapered tunnel. Better boards - take a page from Skinz boards.

Why not change it up and move fuel to the front and mid mount the engine to centralize weight (the fuel tank sits pretty high up on most sleds and at 9+ lbs per gallon the weight of fuel adds up (not to mention "free surface effect" of liquids) that way when you get to the prime spots the front end will already be a bit lighter. If most of the mass is centred in line with the rider the amount of rider control will be much better.

The phazer engine is a fun little package but could use another 20 to 30 hp and in the right package would walk all over the ACE / and many current 600 cc packages with its broader torque curve. So what if ACE is slightly better on fuel ... the fun factor is worth the premium.

 

[nards444]

Not everyone needs / wants / can afford a 300 hp beast to have fun. Lots of people here seem to ride a mix of trail but want something that is fun in the powder off trail and won't break the bank.

A decent / rounded / rider forward sled that you can ride on trail with more seat cushion / more wind protection / less inside ski lift. For off trail need less forward weight, wider skis, decent shocks, sway bar disconnect option maybe a 136" x 18" x 1.5" track for more flotation + better approach angle and a tapered tunnel. Better boards - take a page from Skinz boards.

Why not change it up and move fuel to the front and mid mount the engine to centralize weight (the fuel tank sits pretty high up on most sleds and at 9+ lbs per gallon the weight of fuel adds up (not to mention "free surface effect" of liquids) that way when you get to the prime spots the front end will already be a bit lighter. If most of the mass is centred in line with the rider the amount of rider control will be much better.

The phazer engine is a fun little package but could use another 20 to 30 hp and in the right package would walk all over the ACE / and many current 600 cc packages with its broader torque curve. So what if ACE is slightly better on fuel ... the fun factor is worth the premium.

I would agree. How about making them more fuel effiecient and ride better. Where we ride your maybe get up to 50-65mph and that is it. Even with those speeds its not an extended time you can ride at that speed. Sleds are getting to cost to much. I will never buy one at the price they are selling at . 15 grand for something I might ride 8 weeks out of the year, please. Pricing in turn is keeping used sleds at a higher premium as well.

With that said I might be getting rid of mine, rather spend the money on my boat or Camaro. 2005 Warrior 4k miles not mint but great shape. and a 2003 Viper 4k miles, good shape with some cosmetic issues. 2001 Floe Open trailer, drive on drive off. I would be a seller at 6k takes it all, that would be giving away the trailer.

 

[actionjack]

The title of this thread is predictions so I'll predict.

Consolidation of chassis design DB3?
Consolidation of motor design only 1 or 2 blocks (only 3 hole OR only 2 hole and 3 hole)
N/A and Turbo offerings

Phazer replaced/evolved to DB3 with detuned Vector Motor
Nytro revised subframe (or BNG)
Vector in DB3 N/A 3 hole motor
Apex replaced by Vector Turbo in DB3

If Cat can offer N/A and Turbo factory why can't Yamaha.

 

[nards444]

The title of this thread is predictions so I'll predict.

Consolidation of chassis design DB3?
Consolidation of motor design only 1 or 2 blocks (only 3 hole OR only 2 hole and 3 hole)
N/A and Turbo offerings

Phazer replaced/evolved to DB3 with detuned Vector Motor
Nytro revised subframe (or BNG)
Vector in DB3 N/A 3 hole motor
Apex replaced by Vector Turbo in DB3

If Cat can offer N/A and Turbo factory why can't Yamaha.

I think you have some valid ideas like the rest of it. Overall yamaha has the 4 stroke engine down but as far as everything else, they are behind or even with the rest.

But you mention Cat and why yamaha cant. But what people have to realize big business decision go beyond what a few guys in a forum think or even what customers say, yes thats a factor. But as a business yamaha is looking at what market share they have, what market share they want. If they add a certain thing does that mean hiring a bunch of people, buying new machinery, is their final product more costly? I dont know numbers but maybe Cats number of units sold in the turbos is low compared to investment cost. who knows.

 

[actionjack]

You may be totally right, or not. I'll predict Cat damn sure sold a lot of those cats - n/a and turbo. The point is consolidation of components with a broader range of applications. I'm no expert, just tossing my guess/prediction out there. Most any business wants MORE market share period unless their products are something exotic or artistic. Otherwise they are doomed to failure/extinction.

 

[569jason]

I'll put my two cents in. Yamaha's market share number is very low, with those crazy high prices it will stay that way. I just bought a 5 year old sled. I would have been willing to spend 2 grand more for a new sled if Yamaha had a IQ Shift or MXZ 500SS. 100-110 hp, good shocks, capable suspension for around $8000. The last new sled I bought $7999 04 Viper S. Good sled for a good price. $12000 for a sled is nuts. Give the masses something to buy not just the luxury sleds. Yamaha's market share will come back.

 

[nards444]

I'll put my two cents in. Yamaha's market share number is very low, with those crazy high prices it will stay that way. I just bought a 5 year old sled. I would have been willing to spend 2 grand more for a new sled if Yamaha had a IQ Shift or MXZ 500SS. 100-110 hp, good shocks, capable suspension for around $8000. The last new sled I bought $7999 04 Viper S. Good sled for a good price. $12000 for a sled is nuts. Give the masses something to buy not just the luxury sleds. Yamaha's market share will come back.

Well I would agree buddy bought the cat turbo when it came out for a cool 14k, im sure its over 15 now. really who has the money for that. There are a lot of nice things, but a lot of unessary things as well. For me sleds are my second or off season sport and really dont want to have 30k plus wrapped up into two sleds and a trailer plus the annual maint cost. I would agree a sled that is either a 600-800 for 8-10k that runs nice would be my market if I was into it.

Its not only yamahas problem its not like the others have units flying off the shelf anymore, the way the economy goes, sleds are probably the last thing on peoples minds.