Sasquatch
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Sled Dog said:
The problem it seems is not the clutch, it could be made to stay together at 12,000 rpm. Its the belt that can not take the revs. Its like tires they are all (rpm) speed rated. So are tracks!
A belt that stays together at 8500 rpm is now being asked to stay together at +12,000rpm an increase of 50% more speed and on top of that hold a few more ponys without stretching and failing.
No if someone can build a belt that can take the stress loads of a 195 hp engine spinning it at +12,000 rpm a clutch to handle it would be built tomorrow I would think.
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
Its been proven in the past that yamaha has always been slow acting on consumers demand. I think its just the carefully monitored system that takes so bloody long from consumer feedback, to make it to dealer feedback, to make it to provincial reps, to Canadian reps, then to decipher whats defective through suppliers through model/part numbers etc etc...then convert all to Japanese and start all over again.
Sometimes you have to put practical aside and follow the nitch that other OEMs do and ride that wave till the next nitch kicks in. I noticed this ever since the early/mid 90's when Polaris ruled the market with their lightweight triples. By the time yamaha caught on to the demand for a light weight triple, the market switched back to twins while yamie released their first triple. That 97 700 vmax sx would have been a Polaris sales killer if it would have been released a couple years prior. Not to mention the pogo sticks up front were long at the tooth. On the suspension side, the old Proaction was a good suspension for the introduction years compared to competition, but it stayed in the fleet like a bad habit while the other OEMS excelled in the suspension department. Again, timing and I know its easy to say this as we already seen where the market went, but most of us sledheads in its time could of predicted timing of the demand. I know theirs always the cost factor, but sometimes you can't afford not to change. I guess my little yamies I owned when I was younger built loyalty to yamaha, which is probably why I have 3 yamie sleds today, but yamaha doesn't cater to the young anymore, which is probably why my 11 year old son is on a skidoo today.
So in prediction of 2013 and given Yamies history, I don't think we'll see anything radical, but hope I'm wrong. Yamaha is not exactly holding a checkered flag on the snowcross circuit, but they do build the best 4stroke in snowcross today and no other OEM has put their money where their mouth is and entered their own 4-stroke. Yamaha will be sitting pretty when 4-strokes are the norm in snowcross just like the bike curcuit are mostly 4-strokes today. When this happens, the baseline for 4-stroke weights will be carved as the new weight standard for the 4-stoke sled industry.
As the 4-stroke gap has closed with the new cats and doo 1200, yamie has to address its shortcomings that the competition now has. Dump the rear exhaust back to traditional, it was cool when it came out, but the old centralize weight thing is proven not to work with the extra 20 lbs of ice it makes in the tunnel. Move the gas tank around or under seat to centralize weight and that will allow decent storage as well. Getting rid of rear exhaust should also rid of the techno jibbo that shrunk our fuel tanks every year making yamies one of the first looking for fuel in a crowd.
Sorry for the long rant, but sometimes a rant is needed as I prefer to stay with yamaha, but couldn't guarantee my next sled being a yamie at this point.
Dan
Sometimes you have to put practical aside and follow the nitch that other OEMs do and ride that wave till the next nitch kicks in. I noticed this ever since the early/mid 90's when Polaris ruled the market with their lightweight triples. By the time yamaha caught on to the demand for a light weight triple, the market switched back to twins while yamie released their first triple. That 97 700 vmax sx would have been a Polaris sales killer if it would have been released a couple years prior. Not to mention the pogo sticks up front were long at the tooth. On the suspension side, the old Proaction was a good suspension for the introduction years compared to competition, but it stayed in the fleet like a bad habit while the other OEMS excelled in the suspension department. Again, timing and I know its easy to say this as we already seen where the market went, but most of us sledheads in its time could of predicted timing of the demand. I know theirs always the cost factor, but sometimes you can't afford not to change. I guess my little yamies I owned when I was younger built loyalty to yamaha, which is probably why I have 3 yamie sleds today, but yamaha doesn't cater to the young anymore, which is probably why my 11 year old son is on a skidoo today.
So in prediction of 2013 and given Yamies history, I don't think we'll see anything radical, but hope I'm wrong. Yamaha is not exactly holding a checkered flag on the snowcross circuit, but they do build the best 4stroke in snowcross today and no other OEM has put their money where their mouth is and entered their own 4-stroke. Yamaha will be sitting pretty when 4-strokes are the norm in snowcross just like the bike curcuit are mostly 4-strokes today. When this happens, the baseline for 4-stroke weights will be carved as the new weight standard for the 4-stoke sled industry.
As the 4-stroke gap has closed with the new cats and doo 1200, yamie has to address its shortcomings that the competition now has. Dump the rear exhaust back to traditional, it was cool when it came out, but the old centralize weight thing is proven not to work with the extra 20 lbs of ice it makes in the tunnel. Move the gas tank around or under seat to centralize weight and that will allow decent storage as well. Getting rid of rear exhaust should also rid of the techno jibbo that shrunk our fuel tanks every year making yamies one of the first looking for fuel in a crowd.
Sorry for the long rant, but sometimes a rant is needed as I prefer to stay with yamaha, but couldn't guarantee my next sled being a yamie at this point.
Dan
truly never thought I would see the day when loyal yamaha owners would jump ship...i thought i was one of few considering it..seems there are more than just a "few" thinking about it....hope yamaha is listening...while its true that their engines are the best I have never had to do so much work on ANY yamaha I have owned prior to owning both a phazer and apex sled...anyway, i guess I will wait and see AGAIN if something comes along that peaks my interest....hate to bash yamaha but....
nards444
Pro
ZAKSTANG said:
when you dont build the most effective sled in performance and cost, you loose customers. Loyalty can not keeo that. Problem is ski doo makes great sleds that are cost effective. for 6-7k you can be on the trail in something pretty dang good, and for younger people or people with families thats the way to go. Yamaha you would have to shell out 2-4k more to get into something comparable and it might not be any better.
I want a four stroke thats why im in mine. The day other create a good 4 stroke and it they trickle down to used i will buy one, as I dont buy new sleds, the worst depreciation of value on just about any toy.
New Amsnow says a new front end for the Nytro... That would compliment the new lightweight rear suspension that will come in another five years...lol.
Honestly the way the economy is right now I would not be surprised if nothing is changed.
Sled Dog said:
Sad but probably true....I just keep hoping yamaha will do SOMETHING fresh and new...power steering, while new on sleds, isnt really out of the box like yamaha is capable of...
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
True, however if the other 3 OEMs can come out with something new, why can't Yamaha?
HOMEHARDWARE65
Expert
I too wouldn't be surprised if yamaha doesn't come out with anything as the north American economy isn't the only one that is struggling right now, Japan's economy also is in real bad shape also, especially after the tsunami. Yamaha needs to relize that we r in a recession though and start cutting costs so they can compete with the other manufactur's.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
I agree with many people here, forget BNG prepare for a snooze-fest.
That way if something happens you'll be pleasantly surprised.
If ya wanna jump ship then do it. I ride my Yamaha cause I like it. Grew up on them and this one still feels great to me. When I am finished with it, I'll see what Yammi has and try them 'out. Meanwhile me and my 2 sons are all dressed in blue and still lovin it.
Just my 2c
That way if something happens you'll be pleasantly surprised.
If ya wanna jump ship then do it. I ride my Yamaha cause I like it. Grew up on them and this one still feels great to me. When I am finished with it, I'll see what Yammi has and try them 'out. Meanwhile me and my 2 sons are all dressed in blue and still lovin it.
Just my 2c
Attachments
My hope is they release an improved front end for the Nytro. I'd like to upgrade mine. Other than that there is nothing in their current line up that interests me. I didn't even check out what the '12 sleds looked like since all they have to offer is bold new graphics.
The Cat F1100 really piqued my interest. I would not mind picking up a left over or used one. If it handles as good as I think it will I would replace my Nytro with it. I'd feel better if my wife was on something safer and more predictable than my Nytro.
The Cat F1100 really piqued my interest. I would not mind picking up a left over or used one. If it handles as good as I think it will I would replace my Nytro with it. I'd feel better if my wife was on something safer and more predictable than my Nytro.
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
AK, I rode the new crossfire 800. Granted it is not the 4T but its the same sled except a little lighter. Its really sweet, man. My good friend has an all black one and its a really nice handling sled.
LJ 452
TY 4 Stroke God
Light weight skid? The one they have now doesn't hold up, I can't imagine a lighter one. At least for the RTX.
Yamaha will likely do nothing. They aren't exactly known for it, I think think the size of of corporation while good in a tuff economy, really hurts efforts of development. I see it everyday at work, same scenario, moneys tight, take it from R and D, put on the cruise and hold on.
Not sure how I would feel about an updated front end for the Nytro, on one hand it's about time, on the other, it's a band aid. Probably a $2,000 one at that. Still leaves the other nagging issues, joints, bushings, ice, steering, fuel cap etc.
Phazer gone.
Nytro gone
Apex revised
Vector BNG
That's my predictions, probably wrong on the Nytro leaving. Hopefully they've got something in the pipe, but if history is any indication, it likely will have several short commings in the suspension department. Which brings me to the wish list, a well handling 130-140HP sled with 120 mile range, offer it as base, mid and loaded but use Fox all around instead of just up front. The soqi shocks are nice but nothing have quality internals, not to mention the list of parts and specs is unattainable. Also let Fox decide on valving, it's pretty clear Yamaha has no one around that knows what they are doing when it comes to shocks.
Yamaha will likely do nothing. They aren't exactly known for it, I think think the size of of corporation while good in a tuff economy, really hurts efforts of development. I see it everyday at work, same scenario, moneys tight, take it from R and D, put on the cruise and hold on.
Not sure how I would feel about an updated front end for the Nytro, on one hand it's about time, on the other, it's a band aid. Probably a $2,000 one at that. Still leaves the other nagging issues, joints, bushings, ice, steering, fuel cap etc.
Phazer gone.
Nytro gone
Apex revised
Vector BNG
That's my predictions, probably wrong on the Nytro leaving. Hopefully they've got something in the pipe, but if history is any indication, it likely will have several short commings in the suspension department. Which brings me to the wish list, a well handling 130-140HP sled with 120 mile range, offer it as base, mid and loaded but use Fox all around instead of just up front. The soqi shocks are nice but nothing have quality internals, not to mention the list of parts and specs is unattainable. Also let Fox decide on valving, it's pretty clear Yamaha has no one around that knows what they are doing when it comes to shocks.
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
I don't see the nytro leaving the lineup as it fills a void in the lineup for a certain style of rider. With the current choice out from other OEMs, I can't see certain issues not addressed when the competition offers it. To go out and buy a Nytro today, most have to consider how to bring extra fuel such as changing out fuel tank as I did. Gauges and skis are subpar as well. For the same price, you can scoop up a Doo 1200 that has deacent storage area, useable skis, deacent gauges, less ice build up hence less weight, and a useable fuel tank.
I'm not leaving Yamaha just yet, but to go buy a new sled tomorrow it would be a 1200 renegade. Who knows I might own a new cat when they iron the new sleds out.
I've been loyal to Yamaha most of my life because they make great sleds, but I left Yamaha before in the 90s for a couple seasons when the competition had something better to offer.
Dan
I'm not leaving Yamaha just yet, but to go buy a new sled tomorrow it would be a 1200 renegade. Who knows I might own a new cat when they iron the new sleds out.
I've been loyal to Yamaha most of my life because they make great sleds, but I left Yamaha before in the 90s for a couple seasons when the competition had something better to offer.
Dan
blueironranger
TY 4 Stroke God
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2009 Phazer MTX
Dano said:
ditto, IF I had to buy a new sled today it would be a 1200 Rene. If I was slightly more trail oriented a Vector LTX. If I had to get one next year the Cat 1100 N/A would be in the running IF they get all the issues ironed out like the KINKING TUNNEL. If Yamaha releases/builds a 650-750cc TWIN 100-115hp Phazer chassis sled for next year that would be my #1 choice. But I'm not in the market for a new sled for another 4-5 years so my choices aren't valid
I buy new and ride for 6-7 year before I upgradeSimilar threads
