2009 Nytro Front End+ Rebuild

[Hooray!]

Thanks GT, I am hopeful... seems like there is a balance when you are watching $ in and where to spend it. Today's focus was on Schmidt Bros parts and the clutch in particular. I had a great conversation with Chris at SB today, I wish I had $500 for his complete Stage I (comfort) and Stage II clutch kit but learned a bunch after tearing down my clutch with him on the phone inspecting pics I sent him (some are below). From the inspection, my clutch must have been rebuilt before my brother in law bought the sled as he put 6500 miles on it while he owned it and clutch is still looking good. I think I will start with three SB clutch items: quiet clutch, comfort clutch a secondary helix machining, just over $200 now and then a stage II once I have some seat time on the sled. I also committed to the SB outer tie rod pins bolts & tunnel block off and Chris said he did a lot of testing with a full block off like the OFT I was considering and determined it was sealed up too much and didn't let the air circulate enough (created a heat box) and that the way the track throws snow up, the partial block off prevents the build up as others here have confirmed and the remaining snow melts off the hot exhaust without creating an ice brick above the total block off plate design... good stuff.

 

[Gtbensley]

I have so much to learn about sleds, just got into them a few years ago. My Nytro I just bought has 98xx miles on it but apparently has been very well taken care of. No clue if the clutch has been rebuilt though.

 

[Hooray!]

Lots to learn... my sled was sold by the original owner with 6800 miles on it to my brother in law. The original owner did the hygear full suspension upgrade ($1500+), full Yamaha gear bags (trunk, windshield, rear rack with two bags) and the trail tank. My brother in law did some epic 1000 mile rides so it now has 14000 miles on it but he completely went through the rear skid last year, new main bearings both sides, new camoplast 1.6" track, X-wheel new bearings, Duponts, two new belts, etc. I could not pass up the $2000 he was asking last March even knowing the front end was tired but after a couple of late season rides have no doubt I could have ridden it as is for a few years. Instead I wanted to make it mine on a budget and tighten up the front end and a few other tweaks with a goal of $1500 +/-, hence the choices I have had to make. The clutch was unplanned but putting $200 into the primary seems like the smart thing to do and the tunnel block off should eliminate a major PITA maker! I'll be all in for around $3600 with the HIDs and have essentially a refreshed sled ready for many seasons of fun. It would have been easy for me to have spent another $2500 if I did the MountainTech front end, OFT relocate, WRP seat, Curves, full clutch and a muffler but I am happy with what I have and will be interesting to see how the Bergstrom kit and new front end feel on the trail. Likely next update will be the SB secondary (Stage II) kit as that would be an immediate seat of the pants improvement over just the Stage I and then his muffler rebuild (need to research this). I like tinkering and learning so am having fun just doing it and if my posts help make it easier for the next guy like yourself, fantastic... so many options.

 

[Gtbensley]

Thats a great deal on that sled! And it seems these motors sorta run forever so you should be in great shape with everything thats been replaced!

I just ordered some Stud Boy Sharpers for the inside of the Tuner skis that are on my sled, the ones on it look okay but the guy I got it from said they were two seasons old so I figured I should replaced them. Very curious to see how the Tuner skis work as I am very used to the poor steering of a stock 07 Phazer. Thinking about doing the OFT relocate but figure I should ride it first and see how I like it. The steering bushing do have a little play though so maybe I will just do it.

Just spoke with UpBushman and hopefully will be buying his kit for my spindles as the skis can move about 1" in either direction from the other ski, that cant be good for the handling.

How do you like the 1.6" track? Mine has a new stock 1.25" on it but I fear it will not be great when I get off trail, which is not often but enough that I would like to not get stuck every time I try.

 

[Hooray!]

I thought so too, solid sleds and these motors will go 60,000+ if they are maintained. Learned a lot about annual maintenance of the jack shaft bearing and other items on this site to keep things well greased every season. I enjoy tearing things apart with a beverage or two so working on a sled is not work to me. Pretty much with maintenance and not beating on the sled they will last. My 1998 VMAX 700 XTC only has 3800 miles on it (I bought with 200 back in 2001) and it still runs strong. I get my two-stroke fix every now and then, love the redhead triples.

The UpBushman spindle kit is a great product, on my list for the future; I installed the new stock set and oilite spindle bushings that came with my sled in a bag of new parts (along with six new X-wheel bearings). I went with the full on Bergstrom solution for tuners (triple point carbides, ski savers, rubber shims and outer wear rods). I would suggest you look at their setup (see earlier in this thread) too as they correct the pressure point issue we have and minimize darting. Have not heard of a better way to make Tuners a viable ski for Nytros especially as the carbides wear. The 1" of side to side play in your ski tips is from a combination of the ski bushings (UpBushman kit will solve this), a worn front end (A-Arm bushings and ball joints) but amazingly up to 3/4" of the ski tip side to side play could be the outer tie rod bolts (even if new) as the shaft is smaller than the threads. My totally new front end which is super tight at the spindle has 3/4" of ski play from those new bolts! I stumbled on the Schmidt Bros bolt / pins that they machine so the flange is as wide as the threaded portion to take that play out, plus they offer another shim to go in the steering connection plate to get rid of that slop, cheaper than two new Yamaha bolts I just bought at $16 so a must in my mind for you. Installing them later this week if they arrive, will post results.

I have never ridden a Nytro with anything but the Camoplast 1.6" track but I loved it. It has small studs on the tips of the rubber paddles and totally hooked up. My three rides end of last year in April were with the stock Yamaha skis with old carbides as the Tuners my brother in had installed were trashed (one broken). Needless to say, with a tired front end and old stock skis, things pushed a little but I didn't care as we had three 12"+ storms so mostly soft powder riding anyways. I found some well timed throttle with the 1.6" track hooking up de-weighted the front end and I could drift the lightened front end and power the rear end wherever I wanted. I am used to (and don't mind) compensating with power for sled dynamics as a must with my 12" XTC VMAX suspension; riders on new sleds up to 800's are amazed (and maybe pissed) they have a hard time keeping up with a 1998 sled! They hop on thinking there is some magic and jump off shaking their heads as it is dangerous if you don't apply throttle and weight at the right moments entering and exiting a corner to compensate for crazy suspension dynamics! A magnitude less on our Nytros... I remember my Dad's friends on their 1974 Cheetahs with 2" of leaf spring front ends ripping it up when your body was the entire suspension! We are all spoiled now with sleds that do all the work for us or we complain... lol... good to be riding in 2017!

 

[Gtbensley]

Supposedly the previous owner replaced ALL the bearings in the sled two years ago, because he was bored and had a buddy on a Skidoo that lost a jack shaft bearing. I should probably grease them but might forgo that until next season.

I have read about Bergstroms solution for the skis, and very well may try that. Going to ride it first and see how it does before I spend the coin on that or different skis, at this point I just want to work on it so I can dream of riding and thats a tough reason to just replace parts I am not sure need it haha.

The skis currently only move on the spindle bottom, the rest is actually pretty tight as all the bushing have been replaced last year. It really needs Bushmans kit and will just see how it does from there.

I need to find a cover for this too as I have an open trailer and dont want salt all over it, not having great luck sourcing one I like though.

 

[Hooray!]

Agree... I believe when my brother in law tore my sled down the bearings were shot. The annual bearing repack thread here seems like a great idea. Maybe a PITA but so much worse if it goes on the trail.

I thought you had tuner skis. If stock skis, makes sense to look at new carbides. I'll post how my Bergstrom Tuner ski combo works, my brother in law loved the tuners even with Yamaha carbides. Many here like Curves but others don't... lots of threads on skis to read especially back in 2011 and 2012 posts.

The UpBushman kit looks solid, worth it IMO. Same here on a cover, the stock one is torn badly so have to do some research. I am not even sure this sled will fit on my Sled Dock covered trailer, may be in the market for a new trailer too (and might as well add a truck!)... my wife loves that kind of logic... lol.

 

[Gtbensley]

I do have Tuner skis but have not ridden this sled. I was comparing it to the old 07 Phazer I had which had the stock skis on it and handles like crap and steered poorly. If these tuner skis handle well, I will just let them be for now.

That is great logic, no sense in buying a new cover when you can just get a bigger trailer and truck!

 

[Hooray!]

If you have tuners, there are a few cheap parts from Bergstrom to buy even with your alternative carbides. Their ski savers (one set for inners and one set for outers) and shims for the rubber bumpers (<$50 total) will make a huge difference on your tuners so I am told.

Yes, I like that logic too, not sure my wife will agree!

 

[Gtbensley]

Ill have to contact him and get those, I have been reading about ski savers and they sound like a good idea.

 

[Hooray!]

Yes for sure, you need two sets of ski savers and one set of shims. Maybe buy new rubber bumpers ($25@) from Yamaha if yours are worn out. Bergstrom was talking about designing their own rubber bumpers but I don't think they are done yet.

 

[Gtbensley]

Just started pulling it apart and the front upper control arms have more slop then I would like, going to order Ulmers kit to solve that I guess. Are the bolts into the engine side using captured nuts or do I need to be able to access the backside of them?

 

[Hooray!]

The tops are captured nuts, the bottom ones are not. The bottom closest to the steering post is a PITA to reach in and get it. I taped an allen wrench to a 14mm I think to reach it. Once on the nut worked fine. The ulmer oilite bushing kit is awesome. I coated everything with the Euro synthetic adhesive grease (see above in thread) and then marine synthetic waterproof grease to lubricate them. Ulmer said grease not needed but does not hurt either. You will be shocked how tight they feel once torqued into place, almost too tight, feel hydraulic but I am sure they will wear in and be fine.

 

[Hooray!]

Pulled the skid tonight, had six new bearings for the smaller X-wheel kit, one was replaced last year and one is new to replace one that was MIA (8 total) but did not the 54mm bearings for the larger wheels so have to source them tomorrow. Used the method my brother in law used two years ago: balanced right bar tip on a cement block with some foam on top and a milk crate under the bumper. Looks like it will tip over but actually pretty solid from the milk carton support. Disassembled entirely and cleaned all the plastic bushings, hit them with the synthetic adhesive grease spray then synthetic waterproof marine grease, tomorrow will put skid back in sled. Anyone know of a bushing kit for the rear skid, looks like a great candidate for a low cost upgrade? I did find I have the Hygear spring spacer shim (white plastic in pic) which is cool, I think they are pretty expensive from what I read in another post. Found one guide knob on inside of track missing likely when one of the X-wheels parted with itself (bearing explosion?) and left the skid... More learning...

 

[Hooray!]

Going through the skid now... worth all checking their "hooks" that hold the skid springs, mine were worn through the plastic, through the aluminum support / mount and started to wear into the bolts! No sign of any issue or damage but a little further and it could have let a spring go which would reverse into the track and likely create a mess on the trail! I just ordered every skid bushing possible plus the new hook setups, <$200 will have a fresh skid. I also ordered the Yamaha full synthetic "race grease", anyone know if this can be used instead of the non-synthetic "suspension" grease? I would think full syn is better...