2020 Release

[whitedust1]

Here is my thinking, not from a "what I want to see" from Yamaha standpoint, but one from a practical for Yamaha Corp to remain and survive. They need to build off of their current strong points and fix the weak points to allow them to produce something new without the huge cost of R&D for something 100% new. Not rocket science but follow along.

Current Strong Point: ENGINES - Yamaha makes the best in the business. I think you would get very few people to disagree with that statement no matter what brand they currently ride. Through the 2018MY, they had an engine for every power level requested between the 499, 1049, the 998 4 cyl, and the 3 cyl 998T. Add to that the 998NA that could be put in a sled, and I think we could all agree that with some basic tuning changes, they could cover the market demands for power levels with these current engines.

Current Weak Point: CHASSIS / SUSPENSION Yamaha doesn't have their own at all anymore. They haven't made a sled that is true rider forward that has worked properly out of the box AND has appealed to the masses EVER. (Spare me the arguments by some that love their delta box / phaser / nytro chassis. I am one of those guys who likes my delta box, but I know I am in the minority at this point) This is where Yamaha has failed miserably in the last 10 years and what has contributed to many leaving for other brands.

2 stroke argument: Why do the masses want / still by them? Only 2 reasons I'm aware of: 1) Initial cost to own 2) Weight If there are others, please let me know, but from all the reading I do on this site, those are what I have deduced. The only other possible thing would be SnoCross eligibility, but I think that barrier could be and was (Nytro) dealt with in the past?

2020 Recipe to Success: For Yamaha to have a long term future in the sled business (other than being an engine supplier), they have to stand on their own. The current agreement is/was fine (argument for a different time), but it is a short term solution to a long term problem. To stand on their own again, they need to fix the weak point of chassis/suspension. They need to come out with a new rider forward chassis. It needs to be durable and work right out of the box. Shock options are great to improve the ride, but the base model needs to be solid, as that is going to be the meat and potatoes of sales. It also needs to cover all the segments from entry level to hypersled so they can be lean and mean manufacturing it, which allows for re-cooping R&D much faster, simplifies everything, and helps keep costs in check. They can't cover all segments to start out, but within 3 years, it needs to be inventory wide. Finally, the biggest key to the chassis / suspension - IT HAS TO BE LIGHT WEIGHT. Reason for that goes back to the strong point - using their current PROVEN 4S engines to power the lineup. The new light weight chassis has to allow them to compete pound for pound with the other manufacturers 2 strokes in the weight category in order for them to grow sales. It should also help on the cost side as well, as there is no R&D for a new specialized 2S engine, and they can go back to the parts bin building the 4S. I think that addresses the 2 reasons people want a 2 stroke, and also eliminates the EPA worries moving forward as well as Yamaha admitting they should have kept a 2 stroke all these years (seeing many feel that was/is a mistake).

Once they have the entire lineup in one chassis, then they can introduce new engines as well as refinements and starting the whole process again so they don't end up in the same boat in 10-15 years again.

I agree and think you are right on with your business and product logic. Yamaha has a great group of 4s snowmobile engines so leverage that ability with a robust but light new chassis and Yamaha is off and running again with products I would buy. Also extend the Textron agreement with Spring only orders so those consumers aren’t orphaned and have continued support. The 2s engine development imo is a dead end street leads to no where with EPA restrictions and the clock running short.

 

[sideswipe77]

I can't believe yamaha has not seen what 2s sales for the past 10 years has killed them compared to there 4s. They are not to bright seeing how much money was lost for not having a 2s. How much money do you guys think they have lost since they got rid of 2s. I bet it is a staggering amount.

 

[STAIN]

I bet it isn't. As stated before, it wasn't the motor that led to diminished sales.
They where fourth in sales WITH a two stroke in the lineup, so what difference did it make?
Why are we harping on 2 stroke engines so much in this thread? There isn't a 2 stroke engine made I would trade for my Yamaha four stroke.
I think MORE people are going with four strokes, not less. That's what I see out here in New England anyway.....

 

[Mototown]

I have said that in this thread multiple times now. The 2 stroke market is far to strong to not have a sled for it. I can guarantee you if Yamaha offer and 600 an a 850 2 stroke they would sell and it would catch a lot of peoples attentions form other brands.

The magazines just talking about Yamaha coming back to 2 strokes (especially a 800-850) would jumpstart sales ...

 

[whitedust1]

I bet it isn't. As stated before, it wasn't the motor that led to diminished sales.
They where fourth in sales WITH a two stroke in the lineup, so what difference did it make?
Why are we harping on 2 stroke engines so much in this thread? There isn't a 2 stroke engine made I would trade for my Yamaha four stroke.
I think MORE people are going with four strokes, not less. That's what I see out here in New England anyway.....

Exactly leverage their existing 4s engines with a new chassis is all that can be expected at this time in the snowmobile business to stay in the business.

 

[Mototown]

If they want to cut into skidoo & Polaris sales a 850 will cut the biggest swath... they don’t even have to come up with a revolutionary chassis either...

 

[TPAY243]

STAIN i agree with everything you said I don't care what kinda cutting edge technology a 2 stroke has it Will not compare to a SideWinder. They keep making these 2 strokes bigger but they are making the same horse power to meet emissions the 850 Ski Doo is no faster than there old 800 and we will see how this new Polaris will be. I hope Yamaha keeps up the partnership with Cat it is the only way we will have a decent cassie and suspension for these awesome 4 Strokes.

 

[STAIN]

Rumor has it that the 2020 Yamaha's are being built right now----in Japan

 

[whitedust1]

Rumor has it that the 2020 Yamaha's are being built right now----in Japan

Yep I heard Japan was ramping up too but nothing specific other than something was happening.

 

[TPAY243]

Ya I herd it was a revamped delta box with a 850 2 stroke or a 4 cyl turbo 4 stroke,chassie dampeners,eps, front shocks that act like a sway bar,and don't forget the singal shock rear skid,tuner skies and what ever else they came up with in the last 10 years to try and keep up with the competion.

 

[Smokum]

If and that's a big if, Yamaha was to introduce a light weight 4 stroke in a pure Yamaha light weight rider forward chassis that weighed the same as any 2 stroke out there, plus have the power to satisfy in everything from entry level to full blown lake racer, why would you buy anything else, with the reliability of a Yamaha 4 stroke engine, this would be a sled industry game changer.

I agree 100%. It is a big if, but it is a route that is attainable if they want it and can execute. If they don't do something of the sort, then they will just be an engine supplier eventually or be out completely.

 

[Smokum]

I agree and think you are right on with your business and product logic. Yamaha has a great group of 4s snowmobile engines so leverage that ability with a robust but light new chassis and Yamaha is off and running again with products I would buy. Also extend the Textron agreement with Spring only orders so those consumers aren’t orphaned and have continued support. The 2s engine development imo is a dead end street leads to no where with EPA restrictions and the clock running short.

Yes, I didn't state that but the textron agreement stays in place for another 2-3 years producing the sleds to fill the gaps until they have all segments covered. With textron owning Weber and them moving that company to TRF, I dont see them sticking with Yamaha any longer than that anyway. Why outsource when you can produce in house.

 

[TPAY243]

Probably the same reason Textron used the 998 in the new Wildcat X, Weber builds a good lawnmower engine and will never compete in the high performance 4 stroke market.

 

[sk-rx1]

I am not against 4 strokes but even the 1049 is 10 years old with no development, except the Sidewinder which to me is a limited application. Actually most would say that the 1049 today with Cat ECU is a downgrade.

 

[Deeppow16]

I bet it isn't. As stated before, it wasn't the motor that led to diminished sales.
They where fourth in sales WITH a two stroke in the lineup, so what difference did it make?
Why are we harping on 2 stroke engines so much in this thread? There isn't a 2 stroke engine made I would trade for my Yamaha four stroke.
I think MORE people are going with four strokes, not less. That's what I see out here in New England anyway.....

Out east it might seem like that but everything west of the Mississippi is 95% 2 strokes. Theres a reason there are not many places the rent Yamaha mountain sleds, because nobody wants to ride them plain and simple. Everything is light weight 2 strokes. Yamaha is missing a huge chunk of the market by not having a 2 stroke in their line up. No one is saying they need to stop building the best 4 strokes around they just need to add a couple 2 strokes to the line to compete with everyone else.