2020 Release

[Deeppow16]

The magazines just talking about Yamaha coming back to 2 strokes (especially a 800-850) would jumpstart sales ...

Oh I think is would catch a lot of peoples attention. I really think its something they need to do.

 

[whitedust1]

I don’t think there is any question that mountain market is all the way big bore 2s. I not sure that market is large enough to justify a 2s development program. Yamaha would have to come out of the vapor to compete in powder sleds no chassis, no 2s engine and lots of excellent products already available. I don’t see it nothing to leverage at ground zero in mountain market and would take a HUGE investment to compete.

 

[Wannaviper]

I bet it isn't. As stated before, it wasn't the motor that led to diminished sales.
They where fourth in sales WITH a two stroke in the lineup, so what difference did it make?
Why are we harping on 2 stroke engines so much in this thread? There isn't a 2 stroke engine made I would trade for my Yamaha four stroke.
I think MORE people are going with four strokes, not less. That's what I see out here in New England anyway.....

I agree, I see more and more 4 strokes riding in Maine, especially since the advent of the Viper and Sidewinder. When I rode a Vector for 5 years, I occasionally saw another Vector, or more likely an Apex, but soon after the Vipers came out, it seemed like they were everywhere. I also think that Ski Doo's ACE is catching on, and know some die hard sledders that switched to Ski Doo because of the ACE.

I came to Yamaha from Polaris because of the 4 stroke engine, and since I am primarily a trail rider, I would never go back to a 2 stroke for my primary sled. The only place 2 Strokes have an advantage that I can see is in the off trail or mountain segment; everyone understandably wants lighter sleds off trail, and 2 strokes are lighter than 4 strokes. If you are a trail rider, putting on 2-3,000 miles a year, you can't beat the 4 strokes, especially the Yamaha 4 strokes.

 

[Mototown]

Doesn’t matter which motor is more reliable or lighter sales should be what drives the direction of your company .

1) how many 4s phasers( 80 hp )has Yamaha sold total
2 ) how many 4s nitros (135 hp) has Yamaha sold total
3)how many 4s vipers has Yamaha sold total
4)how many 850 skidoo s have been sold just in the last 2 years?
what’s on the cover of most magazines this year... a Polaris 850...Polaris didn’t reinvent the chassis either,
There seems to be a pattern, sales don’t lie

 

[whitedust1]

Doesn’t matter which motor is more reliable or lighter sales should be what drives the direction of your company .

1) how many 4s phasers( 80 hp )has Yamaha sold total
2 ) how many 4s nitros (135 hp) has Yamaha sold total
3)how many 4s vipers has Yamaha sold total
4)how many 850 skidoo s have been sold just in the last 2 years?
what’s on the cover of most magazines this year... a Polaris 850...Polaris didn’t reinvent the chassis either,
There seems to be a pattern, sales don’t lie

Yamaha has never been a marketing driven company always has been an engineering driven company. Right or wrong that’s the way it’s always been you know that. I have worked for engineering driven companies and they usually are very profitable but limit their offerings. Marketing driven companies are fun to work for a more seat of the pants approach to product development buy high warranty costs as well.

Do you have access to model and engine sales of all snowmobile companies broken down by product line and engine size? I sure would like to see it if you have it.

The Ace vairents supposed to have sold well and the doo 130 was also popular. As far as I know rumors were that Doo sold more 4s models than than AC and Yamaha combined. So the 4s snowmobile market is growing and healthy. Now the Ace turbo is available also doing well. Polaris had limited availability of their 850 and stopped shipping due to a recent 850 recall. Logically not many sold. Doo 850 no idea units sold either.

 

[Smokum]

Out east it might seem like that but everything west of the Mississippi is 95% 2 strokes. Theres a reason there are not many places the rent Yamaha mountain sleds, because nobody wants to ride them plain and simple. Everything is light weight 2 strokes. Yamaha is missing a huge chunk of the market by not having a 2 stroke in their line up. No one is saying they need to stop building the best 4 strokes around they just need to add a couple 2 strokes to the line to compete with everyone else.

I don't ride off trail - never have (would like to someday though). I'm asking to get a better understanding. Since you are a 2 stroke proponent, what drives that decision for you and those you ride with? It appears to be weight by your posts, and I fully understand wanting light weight if you ride off trail. With that said, if a 4S in a good chassis can compete pound for pound with a 2S (like within 20lbs of each other) would you/your group buy a 4S? Is there other advantages to a 2S that I'm missing? I would sure think a rental company would rather rent a 4S for reliability, but obviously not if people don't want them.

 

[STAIN]

Out east it might seem like that but everything west of the Mississippi is 95% 2 strokes. Theres a reason there are not many places the rent Yamaha mountain sleds, because nobody wants to ride them plain and simple. Everything is light weight 2 strokes. Yamaha is missing a huge chunk of the market by not having a 2 stroke in their line up. No one is saying they need to stop building the best 4 strokes around they just need to add a couple 2 strokes to the line to compete with everyone else.

the off-trail segment is roughly 25% of the market, maybe they dont care to devote all the R&D to smaller section of the market.

 

[STAIN]

what’s on the cover of most magazines this year... a Polaris 850...Polaris didn’t reinvent the chassis either,
There seems to be a pattern, sales don’t lie

Sales of the magazine, yes. I have bought a magazine because of whats on the cover, never bought a product because it was on the cover of a magazine.
Speaking of Polaris not reinventing the chassis, I heard they are done with the Rush style skid next year....

 

[Mototown]

Yamaha has never been a marketing driven company always has been an engineering driven company. Right or wrong that’s the way it’s always been you know that. I have worked for engineering driven companies and they usually are very profitable but limit their offerings. Marketing driven companies are fun to work for a more seat of the pants approach to product development buy high warranty costs as well.

Do you have access to model and engine sales of all snowmobile companies broken down by product line and engine size? I sure would like to see it if you have it.

The Ace vairents supposed to have sold well and the doo 130 was also popular. As far as I know rumors were that Doo sold more 4s models than than AC and Yamaha combined. So the 4s snowmobile market is growing and healthy. Now the Ace turbo is available also doing well. Polaris had limited availability of their 850 and stopped shipping due to a recent 850 recall. Logically not many sold. Doo 850 no idea units sold either.

If u use your theory that they are a engineering driven company, they stopped racing 4s snow cross in 2013 or 2014 . Right around when Yamaha & cat joined together. So your theory fits that they are working on a new 2s Lol

 

[whitedust1]

If u use your theory that they are a engineering driven company, they stopped racing 4s snow cross in 2013 or 2014 . Right around when Yamaha & cat joined together. So your theory fits that they are working on a new 2s Lol

I don’t follow please clarify.

 

[Wannaviper]

Doesn’t matter which motor is more reliable or lighter sales should be what drives the direction of your company .

1) how many 4s phasers( 80 hp )has Yamaha sold total
2 ) how many 4s nitros (135 hp) has Yamaha sold total
3)how many 4s vipers has Yamaha sold total
4)how many 850 skidoo s have been sold just in the last 2 years?
what’s on the cover of most magazines this year... a Polaris 850...Polaris didn’t reinvent the chassis either,
There seems to be a pattern, sales don’t lie

We all understand what has sold in the past, and you are right it has been big 2 strokes, but the question is why? I think the simple answer is that a sled that gives the best ride, the best handling, and the most power, wins! When Yamaha was making its own sleds, delta box Vectors and Apexes, Nytros, Phazers, etc., they had great engines with good power, but the suspension and handling were awful in comparison to what Polaris, Ski Doo and even Arctic Cat were producing. We all loved the Yamaha 4 strokes, but suffered through poor handling and rough rides. The best riding and most powerful sleds were 2 strokes, so that's what sold.

I don't know how many Vipers and AC 7000's were sold, but my guess (based upon what I see on the trails) is that the Pro Cross chassis was a shot in the arm for Yamaha's 4 stroke motors. Everyone I ride with has one. The combination of the Pro Cross and the Sidewinder engine certainly made a big splash in the snowmobile world, and everyone who wanted the fastest sled on snow wanted one. But, even then, the Pro Cross came out 8 years ago, and is/was an outdated chassis. Even with the Pro Cross, AC was a distant third behind Polaris and Ski Doo. The Axys Polaris suspension, or the Ski Doo R Motion suspensions are the ones that got all the rave reviews for comfort and handling. So, you stick a big 800 or 850 2 stroke in their chassis, and it will sell. How would Yamaha have done if it had made a deal with Polaris and gotten the Axys chassis, or Ski Doo and gotten the R Motion chassis? Yamaha has the engines that will sell lots of sleds, if they put them in a state of the art chassis. I am just hoping that AC and Yamaha are jointly developing a chassis to replace the Pro Cross that will put them at the top of the list instead of the bottom.

 

[jjmoneysauce]

Yamaha has never been a marketing driven company always has been an engineering driven company. Right or wrong that’s the way it’s always been you know that. I have worked for engineering driven companies and they usually are very profitable but limit their offerings. Marketing driven companies are fun to work for a more seat of the pants approach to product development buy high warranty costs as well.

Do you have access to model and engine sales of all snowmobile companies broken down by product line and engine size? I sure would like to see it if you have it.

The Ace vairents supposed to have sold well and the doo 130 was also popular. As far as I know rumors were that Doo sold more 4s models than than AC and Yamaha combined. So the 4s snowmobile market is growing and healthy. Now the Ace turbo is available also doing well. Polaris had limited availability of their 850 and stopped shipping due to a recent 850 recall. Logically not many sold. Doo 850 no idea units sold either.

A recall on 850s already? For real? If so, that is classic Polaris and really funny.

 

[whitedust1]

A recall on 850s already? For real? If so, that is classic Polaris and really funny.

Yep sleds on hold not shipping for a month maybe less but about a month. Not saying why but don’t want to ship when they know a part is wrong. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Turtle]

Yep sleds on hold not shipping for a month maybe less but about a month. Not saying why but don’t want to ship when they know a part is wrong. Makes a lot of sense.

They have a recall on a fuel pump flange assembly which may crack. The recall notes that it only impacts about 250 sleds.

 

[Mototown]

I don’t follow please clarify.

What ment was if Yamaha only goes off a engineering driven only , they use racing as a testing bed for new products , why did Yamaha walk away from racing 4s in snowcross 13 or 14 ?