2020 Release

[shaggyzr2]

That is not really a full size sled. I guess it qualifies as affordable. I would call it entry level. Would any of you ride it?
We will see how it sells. They have done this before with the Shift. It is a good idea. How about the Ski-Doo Freestyle? how did that sell?
here is article on the exact question.
https://www.snowmobile.com/events/the-entrylevel-snowmobile-conundrum-1908.html

It is a full sized sled, it does have a 121" track, it's just set up for inexperienced riders, sits lower to the ground to make it more stable and the engine is governed. you need to watch the whole video. I wouldn't ride it because I would need a little more power than that, and I don't ride Polaris, but there are a lot of people out there that don't care if their sled has a ton of power. Polaris also offers other Indy models for under 8 grand, what does Yamaha have to offer in that price range? nothing other than childrens sleds. Nothing wrong with building high dollar top of the line sleds for the people that have the $, but they should make something more affordable as well.

 

[shaggyzr2]

It is a full sized sled, it does have a 121" track, it's just set up for inexperienced riders, sits lower to the ground to make it more stable and the engine is governed. you need to watch the whole video. I wouldn't ride it because I would need a little more power than that, and I don't ride Polaris, but there are a lot of people out there that don't care if their sled has a ton of power. Polaris also offers other Indy models for under 8 grand, what does Yamaha have to offer in that price range? nothing other than childrens sleds. Nothing wrong with building high dollar top of the line sleds for the people that have the $, but they should make something more affordable as well.

here are the specs for the Indy Evo so How can you say this isn't a full sized sled?
Estimated Dry Weight
409 lb (185.5 kg)
Fuel Capacity
10 gal (37.9 L)
Overall Height
41 in (104 cm)
Overall Length
114 in (289.6 cm)
Overall Width
44 in (111.8 cm)
Person Capacity
1
Ski Center Distance
39 in (99.1 cm)

 

[03RX1-ER-LE]

When I buy a new sled, about every 3-6 years, I almost always buy at the end of the current model year. I save thousands of dollars this way. I saved almost 4k on my Nytro and @2500 on my Sidewinder.

That is why Yamaha went to spring order and now may be the norm. Don't have to deep discount sleds to move excess inventory. I bought a brand new 2003 Viper ER in 2005 for 6k and my buddy bought a 2004 Venom ER at the same time for 6k also. I think MSRP was 10k at the time.

 

[STAIN]

I would call it a 3/4 or maybe 7/8th sled, not full size. You said it yourself, you wouldn't ride it, neither would I. If it said Yamaha on it, would you ride it? Still a "no" for me
It is for entry level riders, which I agreed with. It is not a viable alternative for the full sized experienced rider who dosen't have cash enough to buy new. Isn't that what we are talking about? A Cheaper, simpler sled for the masses? This is for the newbie. Did you read the article?

 

[allyammies]

It is not full size. Our county alliance is raffling one off.

 

[Deeppow16]

Full size or not, it would be nice to see Yamaha offer something maybe closer to the 8000-10000 range for price. If they would have perfected the Phazer that could have been it right there. Instead they just built the same sled for 10 years.

 

[STAIN]

Full size or not, it would be nice to see Yamaha offer something maybe closer to the 8000-10000 range for price. If they would have perfected the Phazer that could have been it right there. Instead they just built the same sled for 10 years.

I had a Phazer. For a trail sled that thing was a blast. Lacking power on the big trails and it needed some more suspension for my 210 lb. #*$&@ but your right, with a few tweaks that was a winner.

 

[tommyt5078]

Right with the Phazer if it had one more cylinder and say 750cc and 90 horsepower and the price was right 7,500 dollars and a 2019 I would be riding a Yamaha this year!!!!!

I think the Polaris is only lacking horsepower and engine size to be a full size sled, if it had these I would have being riding a Polaris!!!!!

 

[T-Bone]

Believe me, if they sold well, they would make it. You guys are the minority.

The only thing we know for sure is that what Yamaha is currently offering is not selling enough. The success of a company is determined by their collection of products (sleds) offered not just one or two that covers a few segments of the market. For a chance of success and the ability to stand on your own two feet, you need a complete line-up of sleds. When you are so far behind, as Yamaha is, it becomes a massive undertaking. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts. Its pretty simple. Those companies that invested in R&D, with some failures along the way, and offer a full line-up of sleds are now sitting at the top of the industry. If you want to be last in the industry and sell 3000 sleds in the US, then keep doing what Yamaha is doing.

 

[T-Bone]

This is very true, If this was a full size sled for maybe $1000 more? I think it would be a bigger hit. People want less expensive FULL size sleds. At least that's the feedback I've received from customers.

What?? You mean not everybody wants a sled with turbos, superchargers, 200+ HP, GPS with Bluetooth turn by turn navigation, wireless cellphone charger, and a $3000 electronic controlled shock package that you can control with your thumb and without getting off your sled, Oh sand lets not forget about performance dampeners, heated seats, adjustable ski carbides and adjustable windshields. Throw in a couple extra 12V outlets on the sled to power heated glove, boots, helmet, communicators, 3 GoPros and snowmobile suit. How do people snowmobile without all this stuff? I can't believe my parents let me go out on that 1979 Polaris TX-340 back in the day or why I continue to ride after a few years on my 95 XLT.

 

[stevewithOCD]

What?? You mean not everybody wants a sled with turbos, superchargers, 200+ HP, GPS with Bluetooth turn by turn navigation, wireless cellphone charger, and a $3000 electronic controlled shock package that you can control with your thumb and without getting off your sled, Oh sand lets not forget about performance dampeners, heated seats, adjustable ski carbides and adjustable windshields. Throw in a couple extra 12V outlets on the sled to power heated glove, boots, helmet, communicators, 3 GoPros and snowmobile suit. How do people snowmobile without all this stuff? I can't believe my parents let me go out on that 1979 Polaris TX-340 back in the day or why I continue to ride after a few years on my 95 XLT.

That's a very good sarcastic point. As i was reading this post i started to chuckle, but then i realized that sled is EXACTLY what i want.
3 Go-Pro's heated seat & adjustable windshield. Hopefully it's an electric windshield like on a cruising street bike.
But i'm a freak that rides big miles & does big trips. Not ALL do!

I guess the moral of this whole post is, there needs to be a variety of offerings/classes by a manufacturer. Not 8 different sleds in the same category.

My bud bought a 2012 Rush & an IQ Shift for his wife. That Shift was around $5000 6ish years ago. It was a great sled for that niche. We used it as a back-up and it filled those roles perfectly.

IF we could sit at some of those meetings in Japan, we could see exactly what the big Y is trying to accomplish.
IF they want to grow their clientele then they are FAILING without more classes of models & 2-Strokes.
If they are trying to just keep their name in the business & make a profit then they are SUCCEEDING.

 

[Deeppow16]

I had a Phazer. For a trail sled that thing was a blast. Lacking power on the big trails and it needed some more suspension for my 210 lb. #*$&@ but your right, with a few tweaks that was a winner.

I think if Yamaha really put some effort into getting the phazer right it would have sold well. You cant build the same sled for 10 years with out major upgrades to it. I almost bought a new Phazer XTX a few years ago for the wife to drive be ended up on a 600 Ski-doo renegade instead because the handling was much better and didn't scare her when she road it. She road my nytro for awhile last year but I had that sled set up how it should have been set up from the factory and she actually really like it but I had to spend big money to get it right.

 

[biffdotorg]

That's a very good sarcastic point. As i was reading this post i started to chuckle, but then i realized that sled is EXACTLY what i want.
3 Go-Pro's heated seat & adjustable windshield. Hopefully it's an electric windshield like on a cruising street bike.
But i'm a freak that rides big miles & does big trips. Not ALL do!

I guess the moral of this whole post is, there needs to be a variety of offerings/classes by a manufacturer. Not 8 different sleds in the same category.

This is a great conversation that almost mirrors the conversation on the Yamaha boat forums. Its very difficult for long time yamaha owners to talk about entry level products, let alone admit there is a need when they are not the target market for them. So this conversation here is going nowhere with us, unless we have a 12 year in need of their first sled.

Yamaha has proven this business model with their boating lines. And I am not talking about waverunners. They have produced excellent products in a limited amount in a very competitive marketplace. Although they still produce more than dealer orders, almost every dealer around the country sells out their new stock each season. You see a minimal amount of carry over units, and they are discounted very little at that time. In fact, in season, you will not see discounts other than add on's like YES contracts and Coast Guard kits.

My point is, a few years back when the rumors rolled in of Yamaha starting to produce a 19' boat again, after locking in on 21, 23, 24' boats only, the forum blew up with confused posts. The yamaha owners could not understand why Yamaha would ever do something like that. Well for obvious reasons, you either sell more into your current market, or attract a net-new market/buyer. And the current owners in the forums were not it.

That all being said, after a few years of sales of these "entry level" boats, the forum is flooded with new owners, and folks looking to upgrade into a 21, or 24ft boat. The used market has shifted down as it also filled the market with Yamaha branded boats for another group of new owners, that will one day buy up.

So when someone here starts talking about the entry level sled in development, keep in mind this is a great decision, that will not strike home in this group, unless you have a youngster coming into a new sled.

I know in spring 2006, I could not wait to put my order in for a new Phazer FX. It allowed me to get a new sled with 5 year warranty for around $7K and get off my back breaking SRX. For me, the cost and reliability of a new sled at that price by far outweighed the loss in performance. And once I realized I missed the power of my SRX, I graduated to an Apex, and my daughter was more than ready to move to the phazer.

 

[adubs916]

This is a great conversation that almost mirrors the conversation on the Yamaha boat forums. Its very difficult for long time yamaha owners to talk about entry level products, let alone admit there is a need when they are not the target market for them. So this conversation here is going nowhere with us, unless we have a 12 year in need of their first sled.

Yamaha has proven this business model with their boating lines. And I am not talking about waverunners. They have produced excellent products in a limited amount in a very competitive marketplace. Although they still produce more than dealer orders, almost every dealer around the country sells out their new stock each season. You see a minimal amount of carry over units, and they are discounted very little at that time. In fact, in season, you will not see discounts other than add on's like YES contracts and Coast Guard kits.

My point is, a few years back when the rumors rolled in of Yamaha starting to produce a 19' boat again, after locking in on 21, 23, 24' boats only, the forum blew up with confused posts. The yamaha owners could not understand why Yamaha would ever do something like that. Well for obvious reasons, you either sell more into your current market, or attract a net-new market/buyer. And the current owners in the forums were not it.

That all being said, after a few years of sales of these "entry level" boats, the forum is flooded with new owners, and folks looking to upgrade into a 21, or 24ft boat. The used market has shifted down as it also filled the market with Yamaha branded boats for another group of new owners, that will one day buy up.

So when someone here starts talking about the entry level sled in development, keep in mind this is a great decision, that will not strike home in this group, unless you have a youngster coming into a new sled.

I know in spring 2006, I could not wait to put my order in for a new Phazer FX. It allowed me to get a new sled with 5 year warranty for around $7K and get off my back breaking SRX. For me, the cost and reliability of a new sled at that price by far outweighed the loss in performance. And once I realized I missed the power of my SRX, I graduated to an Apex, and my daughter was more than ready to move to the phazer.

biffdotorg, you hit the nail on the head here. I have been impressed with Yamaha Boats for a while but was never in the market because of the size/cost/weight of their 21 - 24' boats were just too far on the high end of what fit our family. When they released the 19' line, I think it hit the sweet spot of the market. There is basically nothing used in Yamaha Jet boats, and if you do find one they have held their value very well. So we ended up with a new 2017 SX195 and love it. Eventually we may "upgrade" to a 21 or 24' in 10 yrs or so.

Now to the sled line, a refreshed viper series with the 847cc CP3 motor, 847 twin (wolverine x2) or 689cc twin would breath some new life into the lineup. In my opinion sales have been so stagnant because they really don't upgrade or re-fresh anything for years and years. Why would anyone who bought a 2014 viper look to buy a 2019 viper that is basically an identical sled? This will be the same situation for the sidewinder crew in a few years if they continue to sit still.
Seems they are always saying that it takes 4-5 years of development before a new model would be released. Since there has been basically nothing all new since the Nytro, it makes you wonder how many prototypes have been scraped or they are sitting on.

 

[biffdotorg]

biffdotorg, you hit the nail on the head here. I have been impressed with Yamaha Boats for a while but was never in the market because of the size/cost/weight of their 21 - 24' boats were just too far on the high end of what fit our family. When they released the 19' line, I think it hit the sweet spot of the market. There is basically nothing used in Yamaha Jet boats, and if you do find one they have held their value very well. So we ended up with a new 2017 SX195 and love it. Eventually we may "upgrade" to a 21 or 24' in 10 yrs or so.

Now to the sled line, a refreshed viper series with the 847cc CP3 motor, 847 twin (wolverine x2) or 689cc twin would breath some new life into the lineup. In my opinion sales have been so stagnant because they really don't upgrade or re-fresh anything for years and years. Why would anyone who bought a 2014 viper look to buy a 2019 viper that is basically an identical sled? This will be the same situation for the sidewinder crew in a few years if they continue to sit still.
Seems they are always saying that it takes 4-5 years of development before a new model would be released. Since there has been basically nothing all new since the Nytro, it makes you wonder how many prototypes have been scraped or they are sitting on.

Exactly. And Yamaha is following the same pattern in all lines, so who are we to argue that it isn't good business. It just didn't work out for them as well in the sled market as it is limited season and climate.

I remember back in 2009 when Yamaha announced the 242 Limited S, 24' twin engine jet boat! It was amazing, and expensive. I was in the market, but could not afford, or tow that unit. So we bought a 20ft SeaDoo X20 as it had a tower and great power. I could also tow it with the truck I had at the time. I have lusted after that boat ever since then.

In all those years, it followed the pattern of the Apex. Small changes year over year, and big hull and electronics changes in 2015 but kept the same name. Enough changes that they should have changed the name. But it kept the value of the boats up high as owners saw the price of a new 242 go up. So the used market was amazing.

Well since the 2015 changes got more known, the earlier models got more affordable. And this spring I drove 1500 miles one way to buy a 2011 242 Limited S. I feel like I bought the Apex of the boat world. I knew the previous two owners through the boat forums and knew everything that had changed on this boat since it rolled off the showfloor.

The point is, Yamaha produced a product that owners felt little need to replace, and it's value remained over those years. No other boat has kept value for so many years. They also listen to forums and integrate small changes that address the concerns of the owners. They do that here as well. So these forums are super valuable. A non-yamaha owner may not realize it. But look at all the little things that have changed in most models over the years and you will see, it was all the things we may have been bitching about.

Of course those changes were sold as advanced new features, as calling it a fix would have admitted that something was wrong with the previous year, and degrade the value of the model and the brand.

It's fun to watch it unfold, even though frustrating at some times.