2020 Release

[hibshman25]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a reintroduction of something about the size and speed of a Bravo or Enticer, but with a 4 stroke motor. We'll see in 2019!

I would love to see a this too with a twin cylinder fan cooled 4 stroke! Be the perfect field sled for Dad when out with the kids on snoscoot in 2" of snow.

 

[Farmer 73]

I would love to see a this too with a twin cylinder fan cooled 4 stroke! Be the perfect field sled for Dad when out with the kids on snoscoot in 2" of snow.[/

Yep bring back the old strut phazer with new up to date tech struts and rear suspension and walla! A new anybody can ride light economical sled!

 

[AftonJay]

The reason sleds sales are down isn't just the lack of snow, it's mainly the price of these things now days! They're getting too complicated just like the cars and trucks we drive, turbos and things we don't really need on sleds, that's why they cost so damn much. They need to start making basic 2 stroke sleds again, something without all the bells and whistles. If more people could afford to buy them the sales would go up. Look at that new arctic cat they call an SRX, MSRP is like $17,500, that's not including tax or interest if you take out a loan, I mean....who want's to spend nearly 20 grand on a snowmobile?! lol

It's true that is expensive, but if you figure inflation it is not really that much of a difference. The 1996 V-max 800 had an MSRP of 9399.00 in todays dollars (according to a google calculator) that equals 15,096.00 so really not a huge difference. But the complexity is much higher, which can make wrenching more intimidating. That being said they are much more reliable and need less wrenching to some degree.

 

[Wannaviper]

I agree that 11,000 sleds worldwide is not a good sign for Yamaha, and that may well be why Yamaha took a year off to clear the inventory backlog. The point of my post was simply that putting Yamaha engines in the Pro Cross chassis was probably a financial success. We are talking about what Yamaha will do in 2020, and the profitability (or lack thereof) of the Yamaha-Arctic Cat partnership will have a big effect on what Yamaha does in 2020. Any money made from selling engines to AC was then used to buy AC chassis and build Yamaha's sleds for them, so I don't know how financially successful the agreement is for one company or the other. Hard to get that data from anywhere. They both needed help and I think it worked out for both companiesLet's look at the "facts":

FACT: In 2013 & 2014 Yamaha sold 4,000 sleds per year in the U.S. based upon numbers direct from Yamaha.
FACT: The industry is on an overall downward sales trend. According to statistica.com, global snowmobile sales were 157,106 in 2013/2014 and slipped to 118,657 in 2016/2017, a reduction of almost exactly 25%. Yamaha says worldwide sled sales were 128,000 in 2017
FACT: In 2017, Yamaha also had a 25% reduction sales reduction in the U.S., just like the rest of the industry, selling 3,000 sleds.
FACT: In addition to the 3,000 sleds, Yamaha was also selling Viper and Sidewinder engines to Arctic Cat for the 7000 series sleds and Thundercats. Every one of those AC sleds sold was a Viper or a Sidewinder with Arctic Cat graphics, and more importantly, money in Yamaha's pocket. Did Yamaha get their sleds built for them and the chassis from AC for free?
CONCLUSION: In 2017 the combined number of Viper (7000) and Sidewinder (Thundercat) sales prevented Yamaha from suffering the 25% loss of sales suffered by the rest of the industry. Again, did Yamaha get the chassis and assembly of Yamaha sleds for free? We know they didn't. I suspect that Yamaha views that as a financial success. I think it kept them afloat in very difficult times but the agreement is not a model for financial success

Anecdotal or not, I really do see more "Yamacats" and "Catahas" than I used to see pure Yamahas on the trails. That may be due in part to the fact that there are now 5 years worth of Viper sales, and because of those Yamaha engines, most of them are still on the trail. I see a lot more ski-Doos and Polaris than Yamahas where I ride.

Whatever their plan is I hope it works and we all get the sleds we want.

You bring up an excellent point about Yamaha paying Arctic Cat for building their sleds, and I agree, I don't have a clue how much Yamaha pays AC for each chassis. However, regardless of whether they are buying the chassis from AC, or building it in their own factory, there is a portion of the sales price that has to cover the cost of that chassis. Presumably Yamaha's price for the Vipers and Sidewinders has a "profit margin" built in to the price of each sled, regardless of whether they built it or bought it. So, if Yamaha's profit is based upon cost plus a profit of XX%, it doesn't really matter who built the sled. The same goes for the engines they sell to AC; each engine costs them something to build, but presumably they are making a % profit off each one they sell to AC.

I agree that I see a lot more Ski-Doo and Polaris sleds than I do Yamahas! I sincerely hope Yamaha does something for 2020 which changes that!

 

[VX1R]

Yep bring back the old strut phazer with new up to date tech struts and rear suspension and walla! A new anybody can ride light economical sled!

You should see the Phazer that I'm currently working on.

Talk about a fun project to bring an older sled up to some of the current sleds standards for cheap. You nailed it Farmer 73: Light and economical!

 

[DGZRT]

You should see the Phazer that I'm currently working on.

Talk about a fun project to bring an older sled up to some of the current sleds standards for cheap. You nailed it Farmer 73: Light and economical!

Is there a Build thread? If not please make one

 

[shaggyzr2]

I might have to disagree there. Basic never sells. Look at cars. Companies are dropping their basic cheap small cars. Tech and new stuff sells. For the people that want a cheaper sled( or car ) the used market is full of good deals and fills that hole.
I know working at a dealership that there are certain models you cant give away when they are sitting on the lot new. All of them are the cheap basic models. But when they come onto the lot used, they don't stay around long and are gone in a few days.

A lot of people don't want a used machine, they would like new but can't afford it. I like what polaris is doing with that new Indy, 550 fan cooled, basic sled, starting price is around five grand. Yamaha could do the same thing, use the 540 fan that's used in the VK.

 

[T-Bone]

I might have to disagree there. Basic never sells. Look at cars. Companies are dropping their basic cheap small cars. Tech and new stuff sells. For the people that want a cheaper sled( or car ) the used market is full of good deals and fills that hole.
I know working at a dealership that there are certain models you cant give away when they are sitting on the lot new. All of them are the cheap basic models. But when they come onto the lot used, they don't stay around long and are gone in a few days.

What about the Polaris Indys with the traditional rear suspension, not the Rush suspension. They sell very well with the traditional rear suspension thats a lot less expensive to produce. Works just as well if not better in many conditions as the Rush rear suspension and IMOlook way better. And up until a couple of years ago it was not available. I used to buy the loaded, highly optioned sleds, but no more, too expensive for how short the seasons have been

 

[Deeppow16]

A lot of people don't want a used machine, they would like new but can't afford it. I like what polaris is doing with that new Indy, 550 fan cooled, basic sled, starting price is around five grand. Yamaha could do the same thing, use the 540 fan that's used in the VK.

I agree. Some people don't want a used machine because you never know how it was treated and a lot of people don't want to take the chance on a used sled if it going to be a pile of garbage right from the get go! Sled manufactures need to offer a sled that is basic and wont break the bank but you still get to buy a brand new sled.

 

[STAIN]

Believe me, if they sold well, they would make it. You guys are the minority.

 

[shaggyzr2]

I agree. Some people don't want a used machine because you never know how it was treated and a lot of people don't want to take the chance on a used sled if it going to be a pile of garbage right from the get go! Sled manufactures need to offer a sled that is basic and wont break the bank but you still get to buy a brand new sled.

Yamaha needs to build something like this. MSRP $5299

 

[shaggyzr2]

Believe me, if they sold well, they would make it. You guys are the minority.

Polaris is making something affordable, I'm sure they wouldn't if they didn't think an affordable basic sled would sell.

 

[STAIN]

That is not really a full size sled. I guess it qualifies as affordable. I would call it entry level. Would any of you ride it?
We will see how it sells. They have done this before with the Shift. It is a good idea. How about the Ski-Doo Freestyle? how did that sell?
here is article on the exact question.
https://www.snowmobile.com/events/the-entrylevel-snowmobile-conundrum-1908.html

 

[DranttelSS]

That is not really a full size sled. I guess it qualifies as affordable. I would call it entry level. Would any of you ride it?
We will see how it sells. They have done this before with the Shift. It is a good idea. How about the Ski-Doo Freestyle? how did that sell?
here is article on the exact question.
https://www.snowmobile.com/events/the-entrylevel-snowmobile-conundrum-1908.html

This is very true, If this was a full size sled for maybe $1000 more? I think it would be a bigger hit. People want less expensive FULL size sleds. At least that's the feedback I've received from customers.

 

[STAIN]

When I buy a new sled, about every 3-6 years, I almost always buy at the end of the current model year. I save thousands of dollars this way. I saved almost 4k on my Nytro and @2500 on my Sidewinder.