2020 Release

[whitedust1]

If you take a cat engine and put it in a cat chassis what do you have? A Cat! It doesn't matter what stickers are on the outside or the color of the plastics. It would be 100% Cat if that happens. If that happens that would be the biggest slap in the face Yamaha could possible do.

To me that would be pointless not going to sell many units better off being a limited production sled maker with your own design.

 

[Wannaviper]

Summarizing everything that has been said here, and all the speculation about Yamaha's future, aren't there really only four possible scenarios for what is happening? Are there any other scenarios that are not just variations on one of these four?

1. Yamaha is getting out of the snowmobile business, and letting its dealers and customers down slowly by reducing its line and limiting production of its sleds by AC;
2. Yamaha is getting back into the snowmobile business, and 2020 will see the introduction of Yamaha designed and built sleds;
3. Yamaha and AC will go their separate ways, but AC will develop a new chassis to replace the Pro Cross, and give Yamaha the rights to the old Pro Cross chassis in return for Yamaha continuing to supply 4-stroke engines to AC. Yamaha will build and improve on that foundation for the future; or
4. Yamaha and AC will deepen the existing partnership and jointly develop new sleds, and maybe Yamaha will even develop new 2-stroke engines to be shared with AC.


If we had the list of possible, or likely, scenarios, we could take a poll, and the winners of the poll would have serious bragging rights come March!

 

[Deeppow16]

Summarizing everything that has been said here, and all the speculation about Yamaha's future, aren't there really only four possible scenarios for what is happening? Are there any other scenarios that are not just variations on one of these four?

1. Yamaha is getting out of the snowmobile business, and letting its dealers and customers down slowly by reducing its line and limiting production of its sleds by AC;
2. Yamaha is getting back into the snowmobile business, and 2020 will see the introduction of Yamaha designed and built sleds;
3. Yamaha and AC will go their separate ways, but AC will develop a new chassis to replace the Pro Cross, and give Yamaha the rights to the old Pro Cross chassis in return for Yamaha continuing to supply 4-stroke engines to AC. Yamaha will build and improve on that foundation for the future; or
4. Yamaha and AC will deepen the existing partnership and jointly develop new sleds, and maybe Yamaha will even develop new 2-stroke engines to be shared with AC.


If we had the list of possible, or likely, scenarios, we could take a poll, and the winners of the poll would have serious bragging rights come March!

I wish for #2 but I feel #4 is the most likely to happen but I have a feeling #1 is a great possibility as well!

 

[1CoolZ71]

Option #5 and most likely..
Yamaha quits building sleds all together and becomes a motor supplier for Cat

With major Dealer in my area, who was die hard Yamaha and now took on the Cat line, I think Yammi is dead.

 

[whitedust1]

We will know Yamaha direction by December or January. As someone else said Yamaha has dug themselves a huge PR hole by design to clear the way for inventory reduction. If offering a new design sled with or without AC the public needs to look, feel and ride those products. The way to launch new products are factory sponsored rides which are traditional with Yamaha. Pats in Greenland, MI or M&M in Hancock has been the dealer targets for these promotions. Always snow at these dealerships and popular riding areas. Imo keep your eyes and ears open for these promotions. I know Pats has an open house early in December and is a very successful tight lipped dealer same with M&M so I’ll be watching them.

 

[T-Bone]

Summarizing everything that has been said here, and all the speculation about Yamaha's future, aren't there really only four possible scenarios for what is happening? Are there any other scenarios that are not just variations on one of these four?

1. Yamaha is getting out of the snowmobile business, and letting its dealers and customers down slowly by reducing its line and limiting production of its sleds by AC;
2. Yamaha is getting back into the snowmobile business, and 2020 will see the introduction of Yamaha designed and built sleds;
3. Yamaha and AC will go their separate ways, but AC will develop a new chassis to replace the Pro Cross, and give Yamaha the rights to the old Pro Cross chassis in return for Yamaha continuing to supply 4-stroke engines to AC. Yamaha will build and improve on that foundation for the future; or
4. Yamaha and AC will deepen the existing partnership and jointly develop new sleds, and maybe Yamaha will even develop new 2-stroke engines to be shared with AC.


If we had the list of possible, or likely, scenarios, we could take a poll, and the winners of the poll would have serious bragging rights come March!

I will guess Yamaha takes the option that gives them the best chance for them increases the total number of units (sleds) sold year after year. Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable that none of us want and that is Yamaha's exit from the industry. The biggest sector in the sled industry is the lightweight 600 class (120-130HP) 2-stroke and put it in all the chassis variants (mountain, trail, crossover, utility) This probably doesn't happen all next year but that would be the plan. They have to increase their sled sales significantly and that doesn't happen by creating a very expensive high HP lake racer. Super nice sled but not what the majority is looking for. The same pride that caused this mess will get them out of it too. I imagine that complete failure in the snowmo biz would be viewed as much worse than their previous bad decisions, so they ultimately will save themselves by participating in the heart of the market with their own products.

 

[whitedust1]

I will guess Yamaha takes the option that gives them the best chance for them increases the total number of units (sleds) sold year after year. Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable that none of us want and that is Yamaha's exit from the industry. The biggest sector in the sled industry is the lightweight 600 class (120-130HP) 2-stroke and put it in all the chassis variants (mountain, trail, crossover, utility) This probably doesn't happen all next year but that would be the plan. They have to increase their sled sales significantly and that doesn't happen by creating a very expensive high HP lake racer. Super nice sled but not what the majority is looking for. The same pride that caused this mess will get them out of it too. I imagine that complete failure in the snowmo biz would be viewed as much worse than their previous bad decisions, so they ultimately will save themselves by participating in the heart of the market with their own products.

The 120 hp market is not what it used be recent market growth has been 800s and 850s in the 150 to 180 hp zone plus the Sidewinder 4s. I’m not saying a 120 hp unique sled wouldn’t sell but not the hot market now. Me I’m fine with 150 to 165 hp sled but difficult to give up at least that much snort to drop down to the 120s no interest down there

 

[T-Bone]

The 120 hp market is not what it used be recent market growth has been 800s and 850s in the 150 to 180 hp zone plus the Sidewinder 4s. I’m not saying a 120 hp unique sled wouldn’t sell but not the hot market now. Me I’m fine with 150 to 165 hp sled but difficult to give up at least that much snort to drop down to the 120s no interest down there

Not saying the 600 class sled would be the only option. They are not doing away with the Sidewinder or other sleds they currently offer. No market is hot for Yamaha not even the Sidewinder. If that were true, then Yamaha would be selling more than 3,000 sleds total in the US. You hear it on this thread all the time that sleds are too expensive. Higher HP sleds cost more to buy, insure, and operate. Yamaha needs a simple, lightweight sled that is fun to ride and affordable to the masses.

 

[TURBLUE]

Maybe this technology will soon redefine the 4 stroke weight issue.

Digital valve system
https://newatlas.com/camcon-digital-iva-valve-system/55827/

 

[TrueBlue]

The 120 hp market is not what it used be recent market growth has been 800s and 850s in the 150 to 180 hp zone plus the Sidewinder 4s. I’m not saying a 120 hp unique sled wouldn’t sell but not the hot market now. Me I’m fine with 150 to 165 hp sled but difficult to give up at least that much snort to drop down to the 120s no interest down there

Are you out there to ride & have a safe day or to go as fast as you can & being stupid like some of those crotch rocket riders do.

 

[biffdotorg]

Artic Cat sled.
Firecat 300....

We have a bingo. Belt drive and tunnel dump exhaust of the new Firecat 300. And possibly, dare I say, Yamaha Enticer? With an Excitier or Phazer II option with 500cc EFI Twin?

 

[Vmax]

43 pages of this thread.....holy over analyze Bat Man....
Just kidding folks nice to see so many Yamaha fans wanting Yamaha to be a force in the sled industry again, me included. Long story short, time will tell so we will have to sit back and wait. I have faith in Yamaha that they have learnt from there mistakes and will move forward in a positive way in coming years.
As much as it is fun speculating on the future of Yammi the reality is it is in there hands...…..period

 

[20/80]

Yamaha and Cat have a mutual trade agreement not a partnership which makes it easier for Yamaha to dissolve, Yamaha knew the day will come that this agreement will come to a end, also this agreement lets Yamaha develop there own sled chassis without sharing, this new patent may be Cats new Jag.

 

[Rich Kay]

They (Yamaha) must have a BLAST reading some of this stuff...……..

 

[whitedust1]

Not saying the 600 class sled would be the only option. They are not doing away with the Sidewinder or other sleds they currently offer. No market is hot for Yamaha not even the Sidewinder. If that were true, then Yamaha would be selling more than 3,000 sleds total in the US. You hear it on this thread all the time that sleds are too expensive. Higher HP sleds cost more to buy, insure, and operate. Yamaha needs a simple, lightweight sled that is fun to ride and affordable to the masses.

Your not wrong BUT I’m thinking survival mode in the near future not overhauling the entire line up. I’m thinking Yamaha could have a new Apex/Vector platform use SS , new front end tech, EPS in a new lighter 4s chassis use the engines they have now since bullet proof excellent engines. Too me that is low hanging fruit for Yamaha with minimal tooling and investment. As far as price we all want more for less nobody going to say bring on new sleds so I can pay more for more or more for less. Lol