2020 Release

[Snorunner]

1985 RZ500 V4 2 Stroke, reed valve electronic Power Valves....still have mine

That's what I am talking about! These bikes will let you enjoy the Twisties. That's what Snowmobilers want. If you want your cake and eat it too! Give us a lightweight 4 Stroke. I love my Yamaha 4 Stroke sleds. I am disappointed with the suspensions. Single shot. I had many dirt bikes growing up. Quickest was a Husqvarna 13 to 1 compression. But best suspension I rode was my 1979 YZ250 Monoshock. I agree with Fast. You can go faster when you are under control!

 

[Deeppow16]

Most of the management shuffling was done a couple years ago , with Canadian division taking over snowmobile side then . To make the snowmobile division profitable they just have looked at what's been selling ... 600 & 850 2 strokes ,

I have said that in this thread multiple times now. The 2 stroke market is far to strong to not have a sled for it. I can guarantee you if Yamaha offer and 600 an a 850 2 stroke they would sell and it would catch a lot of peoples attentions form other brands.

 

[Deeppow16]

I would bet my last dollar that Yamaha has been working on 2-stroke technology the whole time.
It may not be a snowmobile engine, but they've been working on them.
Yamaha is too big, smart & successful to not keep up with research into ALL technologies.
Rumor has it, they helped Infinity develop the "adjustable compression engine". Very interesting. Look it up.
They have dabbled in electric cars & motors. Robots driving motorcycles and 5 stroke motors.

My point is this. If the Big Cheese called up the R&D department and said "i want a crazy tech 600 for a snowmobile in 8 weeks", there would be one on his doorstep in 6.

Yamaha still has 2 stroke outboard motors so they have the tech to build a motor for sled.

 

[sideswipe77]

how many people would jump ship to a yamaha motor and a ac suspension? We also have to look at they both could sell this sled getting a lot of people to leave skidoo and polaris.

 

[DranttelSS]

Yamaha still has 2 stroke outboard motors so they have the tech to build a motor for sled.

They do not anymore... All have been replaced by equally performing or in some cases better performing 4 strokes.

A lot of people go back to Yamaha HPDI technology from the outboard days but I dont think that application would be well suited in a snowmobile. Those motors needed to be RAN, not sit for months on end like snowmobiles. Those injection systems did not like low hour usage.

 

[whitedust1]

They do not anymore... All have been replaced by equally performing or in some cases better performing 4 strokes.

A lot of people go back to Yamaha HPDI technology from the outboard days but I dont think that application would be well suited in a snowmobile. Those motors needed to be RAN, not sit for months on end like snowmobiles. Those injection systems did not like low hour usage.

Yep a 2s snowmobile engine is a unique cold weather application. Yes Yamaha is capable corporation but stopped 2s engines R and D for snowmobiles with the triples. Everyone complained about weight with their 2s sleds too. Yamaha not likely to revisit 2s engines and sleds been there done that then converted to all 4s low warranty costs. Doo and Polaris are kicking but with their light 2s 850s. Why would Yamaha want to jump into that swamp? They lost that battle in the early 2000s and wouldn’t revisit a lost market that is already saturated with good products. The future for Yamaha are light 4s anything else is going backwards with 2s to their 4s domination. 850s are burning down big surprise right! Lol

 

[STAIN]

Those RZ's are badass. I would love one of those but it will never happen

 

[biffdotorg]

They do not anymore... All have been replaced by equally performing or in some cases better performing 4 strokes.

A lot of people go back to Yamaha HPDI technology from the outboard days but I dont think that application would be well suited in a snowmobile. Those motors needed to be RAN, not sit for months on end like snowmobiles. Those injection systems did not like low hour usage.

Right and wrong.

Wrong, they do still make 2 stroke outboards, they are just not distributed in the US
Right, it may not be the correct application as you stated.

They still make 2-stroke outboards up to 200hp
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/business/outboards/

A closer match to a sled engine would be the current 701cc 2S SuperJet engine, which is still the Standup Waverunner of choice. And yes, distributed in the US as well as worldwide.

 

[sideswipe77]

don't you guys think if they did 1 that it would stand the snowmobile world on its end right now since they have been out of it for so long?

 

[DranttelSS]

Right and wrong.

Wrong, they do still make 2 stroke outboards, they are just not distributed in the US
Right, it may not be the correct application as you stated.

They still make 2-stroke outboards up to 200hp
https://global.yamaha-motor.com/business/outboards/

Right, but the reason they are sold over sea's is because they cant pass emissions here in the states/North America... Those motors sold over seas are also conventional 2 strokes, not HPDI, which is what Yamaha would need to be competitive in emissions/fuel/oil consumption for the snowmobile market.

 

[DranttelSS]

Right, but the reason they are sold over sea's is because they cant pass emissions here in the states/North America... Those motors sold over seas are also conventional 2 strokes, not HPDI, which is what Yamaha would need to be competitive in emissions/fuel/oil consumption for the snowmobile market.

Looking at them even closer, they are carbureted, non oil injected units. Pretty primitive by today's standards!

 

[Smokum]

Here is my thinking, not from a "what I want to see" from Yamaha standpoint, but one from a practical for Yamaha Corp to remain and survive. They need to build off of their current strong points and fix the weak points to allow them to produce something new without the huge cost of R&D for something 100% new. Not rocket science but follow along.

Current Strong Point: ENGINES - Yamaha makes the best in the business. I think you would get very few people to disagree with that statement no matter what brand they currently ride. Through the 2018MY, they had an engine for every power level requested between the 499, 1049, the 998 4 cyl, and the 3 cyl 998T. Add to that the 998NA that could be put in a sled, and I think we could all agree that with some basic tuning changes, they could cover the market demands for power levels with these current engines.

Current Weak Point: CHASSIS / SUSPENSION Yamaha doesn't have their own at all anymore. They haven't made a sled that is true rider forward that has worked properly out of the box AND has appealed to the masses EVER. (Spare me the arguments by some that love their delta box / phaser / nytro chassis. I am one of those guys who likes my delta box, but I know I am in the minority at this point) This is where Yamaha has failed miserably in the last 10 years and what has contributed to many leaving for other brands.

2 stroke argument: Why do the masses want / still by them? Only 2 reasons I'm aware of: 1) Initial cost to own 2) Weight If there are others, please let me know, but from all the reading I do on this site, those are what I have deduced. The only other possible thing would be SnoCross eligibility, but I think that barrier could be and was (Nytro) dealt with in the past?

2020 Recipe to Success: For Yamaha to have a long term future in the sled business (other than being an engine supplier), they have to stand on their own. The current agreement is/was fine (argument for a different time), but it is a short term solution to a long term problem. To stand on their own again, they need to fix the weak point of chassis/suspension. They need to come out with a new rider forward chassis. It needs to be durable and work right out of the box. Shock options are great to improve the ride, but the base model needs to be solid, as that is going to be the meat and potatoes of sales. It also needs to cover all the segments from entry level to hypersled so they can be lean and mean manufacturing it, which allows for re-cooping R&D much faster, simplifies everything, and helps keep costs in check. They can't cover all segments to start out, but within 3 years, it needs to be inventory wide. Finally, the biggest key to the chassis / suspension - IT HAS TO BE LIGHT WEIGHT. Reason for that goes back to the strong point - using their current PROVEN 4S engines to power the lineup. The new light weight chassis has to allow them to compete pound for pound with the other manufacturers 2 strokes in the weight category in order for them to grow sales. It should also help on the cost side as well, as there is no R&D for a new specialized 2S engine, and they can go back to the parts bin building the 4S. I think that addresses the 2 reasons people want a 2 stroke, and also eliminates the EPA worries moving forward as well as Yamaha admitting they should have kept a 2 stroke all these years (seeing many feel that was/is a mistake).

Once they have the entire lineup in one chassis, then they can introduce new engines as well as refinements and starting the whole process again so they don't end up in the same boat in 10-15 years again.

 

[20/80]

If and that's a big if, Yamaha was to introduce a light weight 4 stroke in a pure Yamaha light weight rider forward chassis that weighed the same as any 2 stroke out there, plus have the power to satisfy in everything from entry level to full blown lake racer, why would you buy anything else, with the reliability of a Yamaha 4 stroke engine, this would be a sled industry game changer.

 

[tommyt5078]

Tommy T you mean to tell me that a 2017 Vector was $2500.00 more than a brand new 90o ace ??? Yamaha did make sleds this year and not only that there are some real good deals on left overs but maybe you don't like the 2017,18,and 19's line up. I guess you need to move on and enjoy your Ski Doo.

I got a 2017 Skidoo Blizzard Ace 900 and I'm going to get an enclosed trail for the same price as 2017 Vector...…..I'll be spending less on this 2017 Skidoo then I did on my 08' Vector I bought new in 08...…….I'll have just as much fun on this as that 08' Vector and just as much fun if I had a 17' Vector......Plus the people from this site won't care at the rides if I have a Skidoo or a Yamaha!!!!!


The point here is if Yamaha is reading these forums then they will see that some of us can't wait for Yamaha to build I nice affordable sled!!!!!

 

[biffdotorg]

Right, but the reason they are sold over sea's is because they cant pass emissions here in the states/North America... Those motors sold over seas are also conventional 2 strokes, not HPDI, which is what Yamaha would need to be competitive in emissions/fuel/oil consumption for the snowmobile market.

No argument there. That's exactly what I stated. The contradiction was that they didn't make 2 strokes which is false. And the SuperJet is oil injected. So they still make that as well. And up until 2008 I believe, they made one of the most powerful 2 stroke, oil injected EFI's in the GP1300r, and I own two of them. One is 170 and the other is 175hp. Amazing powerplants.