3 Belts & a Gun

[stevewithOCD]

Buckle up boys, it's gonna be a ride!
There will be plenty of facts, some speculation & some overall OCD opinions from the feel of my butt.

First i must PREFACE this post with some understandings:
1. There was NOT an actual gun used so get off the phone with Pelosi & relax
2. I know that each belt would need some adjustments to reach it's full potential, but this thread isn't about that. I firmly believe that MOST guys here would be happy with an offset adjustment, a spring change & some vents then NEVER have to make another adjustment to get decent belt life. These same guys don't care about 2 MPH on top or one nano second on the bottom.
3. This test was done so those that are looking for an alternative belt can look at this post then decide. OR may be even more confused.
4. All 3 belts were washed & broken in for at least 10 miles day before. 2 had 40 miles at start. 8JP had 250.
5. It was 18 to 21 degrees ALL day. The barometric temp hardly moved making tests very fair.
6. The trails were all very similar & i tested 3 times with different speeds for each test
7. There were NO animals hurt during this testing except for the dozens of Maine Red Hot dogs i ate which i'm not even sure which specie of animal to apologize to.


The players: Stock Yamaha 8JP, Gates G-Force Carbon, Ultimax XS825 by Timken (not Carlisle)

FACTS
Average Cost: all respectable compared to other makes
8JP=$85
Carbon=$100
XS=$110

Circumference: notice the XS is quarter inch longer then the carbon
8JP=44 1/4''
Carbon=44 1/8''
XS=44 3/8''

Top Belt Width: notice the carbon is 1.5mm wider then the XS
8JP=34.4mm
Carbon=35.5mm
XS=34mm

TEST NUMBERS i will include a Buds'2018 stock sidewinder i tested at same time
Average Belt Temps: in Fahrenheit
8JP=150
Carbon=135
XS=155
Buds=163

Primary:
8JP=120
Carbon=133
XS=130
Buds=152

Secondary:
8JP=110
Carbon=125
XS=112
Buds=140

Top RPM:
8JP=9000
Carbon=9050
XS=8800

NOW for the GOOD STUFF. Hang on BOYS! OCD's #*$&@ has FEELINGS!

Many Many observations here. I gave both clutch temps because this can help determine where issues are.
My bud got 2000 miles on his first belt, but only 500 to 600 on next 2. This shows that something is moving after a belt EXPLOSION like the stub shaft as others have noted most recently BEERMAN.

I was very surprised. Holding in my hand, i was convinced the XS was my new "girl". It's beautiful.
BUT the Carbon is an absolute BEAST! It pulls much harder & surprisingly ran more RPM's at a cooler temp. I ran down 3 millennials on new Poo 850's with this belt & shocked them when i pulled up next to them for a fist bump.
This belt broke at 500 miles on me last year, but i noticed this same feeling last year even when my clutching was way off. It's the shortest & widest of the 3 & i believe it's softer.
The XS is the longest & thinnest meaning it would need the most adjusting to get best results. The low RPM's indicate this. It just wouldn't go over 8800. It reminds me of our beloved 8DN without making adjustments.
The 8JP was in the middle & it felt like the middle child.
Testing was actually completed before my clutch explosion because i wanted same day testing.

BELT DUST
This was done with white socks. Same brand sox to keep it fair. My dad will be surprised when he looks in his drawer tomorrow, but i stole his glasses so we're covered for a few days.
The 8JP is by far the dirtiest, BUT a lot cleaner then last year especially compared to Buds'.
The Carbon & XS had NO dust in the 90 miles i put on them.
Let me explain why this important. Belt dust is parts of the belt on the floor............not on the belt!
Plus it's just ICKY especially you white guys...........panels i mean.

MORE COOL STUFF
My belts temps ran cooler the FASTER i went in all tests. This shows 2 things. As KNAPP has stated our offsets are dictated by the full shift & not perfect at idle. 57ish seems to be the answer.
Also my vents KICK #*$&@! There is no way i'm running 10 to 20 degrees colder at 90 then 60 without vents.
There is absolutely NO negative to adding $30 of vents so my opinion is..........vent 'em boys! Please don't argue this because i'm all hopped up tonite & not in a mood to argue with nay sayers.

I am posting pics of the trails, the "gun", my clean blue belly pan after 500 miles & my Buds' dirty belt blower.

CONCLUSION: as of now short term

I found the 8JP for $70 on-line.
The Carbon is FAST & this will be my small trail stump puller.
The XS needs adjustment to get optimum performance or it's a POOP.

NOTE: With the help of my TY friends the high mileage testing will begin next week. I should have 2000 miles or so to play with. I will run my Carbon to 1000 miles then the 8JP.

 

[sledding rocks]

nice work

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Some of my measurements Steve... My XS is shorter then 44-3/8'' you showed by alot.

FWIW, I wont run anything but a XS now @ 97$ all in.

Dan


Timken XS825

8DN

8JP

 

[stevewithOCD]

Very possible Dan, but there was 2 of us measuring exactly each belt the best we could & the XS was 1/4'' longer then the Carbon no matter what we measured with or how we did it. It was also thinner.
I firmly believe the XS is similar to the 8DN performance wise & these 2 would be the best choices once adjusted for.
But nobody has done this &/or proven with high miles yet on a stock set up.
Most guys just want simple fixes & just installing this belt, on my very close to stock set up, it was poochy.
I had, the last 2 years, a very consistent 900 mile belt blower. The carbon blew at 500 & although the 8DN looked new at 500 miles, i lost too much performance without adjusting to continue to use it.
Since i leave my sled in Maine, making large changes is difficult.

KNAPP, who was breaking my balls and is starting to show a sense of humor, pointed out to me i didn't test the 8DN or the XTX. I wish i could adjust for all 5 belts for short term & long term with data logs & pics.
But i ride. My sled is fast enough. I just don't want to change belts on the side of the trail every other day.

 

[stevewithOCD]

This week i'll see if i can take pics of all 4 belts plus i wanted to measure thickness.

 

[stevewithOCD]

The numbers i measured are actually the manufacturers' spec numbers also

 

[ClutchMaster]

Nice work OCD! You better give Pops back his glasses tho, don’t want him falling down the stairs or something.

Again thanks for sharing and love the holster. You do have a concealed carry permit right?

 

[stevewithOCD]

Yes, but in Maine it's open carry unless you have a conceal permit.
Not sure what the law is on a Temp gun though. Just weird looks for now. If Schumer has his way, the word "gun" will not be allowed just like Christmas or Columbus day or even the Boy Scouts.

 

[stevewithOCD]

I have all 3 belts' mileage recorded & have a 8JP with 550 on it already.
KNAPP got in my head so i think i'll get a XTX to test now. That means i need to put on 4000 more miles this year.
I better order some more rollers...

 

[rnusr01]

I have all 3 belts' mileage recorded & have a 8JP with 550 on it already.
KNAPP got in my head so i think i'll get a XTX to test now. That means i need to put on 4000 more miles this year.
I better order some more rollers...

4000 miles I might get there by 2023.

 

[theewarrior]

Buckle up boys, it's gonna be a ride!
There will be plenty of facts, some speculation & some overall OCD opinions from the feel of my butt.

First i must PREFACE this post with some understandings:
1. There was NOT an actual gun used so get off the phone with Pelosi & relax
2. I know that each belt would need some adjustments to reach it's full potential, but this thread isn't about that. I firmly believe that MOST guys here would be happy with an offset adjustment, a spring change & some vents then NEVER have to make another adjustment to get decent belt life. These same guys don't care about 2 MPH on top or one nano second on the bottom.
3. This test was done so those that are looking for an alternative belt can look at this post then decide. OR may be even more confused.
4. All 3 belts were washed & broken in for at least 10 miles day before. 2 had 40 miles at start. 8JP had 250.
5. It was 18 to 21 degrees ALL day. The barometric temp hardly moved making tests very fair.
6. The trails were all very similar & i tested 3 times with different speeds for each test
7. There were NO animals hurt during this testing except for the dozens of Maine Red Hot dogs i ate which i'm not even sure which specie of animal to apologize to.


The players: Stock Yamaha 8JP, Gates G-Force Carbon, Ultimax XS825 by Timken (not Carlisle)

FACTS
Average Cost: all respectable compared to other makes
8JP=$85
Carbon=$100
XS=$110

Circumference: notice the XS is quarter inch longer then the carbon
8JP=44 1/4''
Carbon=44 1/8''
XS=44 3/8''

Top Belt Width: notice the carbon is 1.5mm wider then the XS
8JP=34.4mm
Carbon=35.5mm
XS=34mm

TEST NUMBERS i will include a Buds'2018 stock sidewinder i tested at same time
Average Belt Temps: in Fahrenheit
8JP=150
Carbon=135
XS=155
Buds=163

Primary:
8JP=120
Carbon=133
XS=130
Buds=152

Secondary:
8JP=110
Carbon=125
XS=112
Buds=140

Top RPM:
8JP=9000
Carbon=9050
XS=8800

NOW for the GOOD STUFF. Hang on BOYS! OCD's #*$&@ has FEELINGS!

Many Many observations here. I gave both clutch temps because this can help determine where issues are.
My bud got 2000 miles on his first belt, but only 500 to 600 on next 2. This shows that something is moving after a belt EXPLOSION like the stub shaft as others have noted most recently BEERMAN.

I was very surprised. Holding in my hand, i was convinced the XS was my new "girl". It's beautiful.
BUT the Carbon is an absolute BEAST! It pulls much harder & surprisingly ran more RPM's at a cooler temp. I ran down 3 millennials on new Poo 850's with this belt & shocked them when i pulled up next to them for a fist bump.
This belt broke at 500 miles on me last year, but i noticed this same feeling last year even when my clutching was way off. It's the shortest & widest of the 3 & i believe it's softer.
The XS is the longest & thinnest meaning it would need the most adjusting to get best results. The low RPM's indicate this. It just wouldn't go over 8800. It reminds me of our beloved 8DN without making adjustments.
The 8JP was in the middle & it felt like the middle child.
Testing was actually completed before my clutch explosion because i wanted same day testing.

BELT DUST
This was done with white socks. Same brand sox to keep it fair. My dad will be surprised when he looks in his drawer tomorrow, but i stole his glasses so we're covered for a few days.
The 8JP is by far the dirtiest, BUT a lot cleaner then last year especially compared to Buds'.
The Carbon & XS had NO dust in the 90 miles i put on them.
Let me explain why this important. Belt dust is parts of the belt on the floor............not on the belt!
Plus it's just ICKY especially you white guys...........panels i mean.

MORE COOL STUFF
My belts temps ran cooler the FASTER i went in all tests. This shows 2 things. As KNAPP has stated our offsets are dictated by the full shift & not perfect at idle. 57ish seems to be the answer.
Also my vents KICK #*$&@! There is no way i'm running 10 to 20 degrees colder at 90 then 60 without vents.
There is absolutely NO negative to adding $30 of vents so my opinion is..........vent 'em boys! Please don't argue this because i'm all hopped up tonite & not in a mood to argue with nay sayers.

I am posting pics of the trails, the "gun", my clean blue belly pan after 500 miles & my Buds' dirty belt blower.

CONCLUSION: as of now short term

I found the 8JP for $70 on-line.
The Carbon is FAST & this will be my small trail stump puller.
The XS needs adjustment to get optimum performance or it's a POOP.

NOTE: With the help of my TY friends the high mileage testing will begin next week. I should have 2000 miles or so to play with. I will run my Carbon to 1000 miles then the 8JP.

Could we ask what clutching your running

 

[stevewithOCD]

Could we ask what clutching your running

BEFORE they blew up set-up.

The only 2 things that are "different" then stock:
1. Dalton QAY weights
2. Dalton New Black/Orange secondary spring set at 80

Other non-performance parts:
1. TP 911 cover
2. TP Glide Washers
3. TP 14.8 Primary Rollers
4. Hi-Torque Secondary rollers
5. BOP belt remover adjuster
6. Stock 35 dalton helix

My belt fixes this year:
1. Offset at 57.5 using Hurricane tool
2. Float set at about 1mm
3. Venting in front & back of panels on both sides of sled

 

[ClutchMaster]

OCD what was your offset last year?

 

[Rtbo]

What kind of vents are you running

 

[Alsim]

Some of my measurements Steve... My XS is shorter then 44-3/8'' you showed by alot.

FWIW, I wont run anything but a XS now @ 97$ all in.

Dan


Timken XS825
View attachment 145498

8DN
View attachment 145499

8JP
View attachment 145500
View attachment 145501

Dan, how can I make sure it's the good one. I'll give it a try !!

Al.