Buckeye
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snappy said:i think if they do come out with a turbo it will also be fuel injected.turbos seem to perform better with fuel injection than carbs.
I don't know about that. Mine performs pretty damn good with carbs.
BlgsRX-1mtn
TY 4 Stroke God
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Well guys; I will agree with spray; I personally saw a prototype Yamaha last spring in Cooke City, MT which had a boost gauge to the left of the tach/speedo. Right now Yamaha is testing and doing their photo shoots in Cooke City for the new '06 brochures. They have been there since Friday and will be there all week.
If there is one time I regreted having my Whiteknuckle exhaust it was Saturday. As I topped a hill two guys in a group of about 12 scrambled to cover up a '06 prototype they were taking pics of. The wife and I were run off without even getting within 20 yards of the tarped sled.
While going back down the trail we past two Yamaha test riders heading up there. These guys test new ideas, some might be seen and some might not. The second sled had some really wild looking flat black plastic intake cowls on both sides of the hood where the current vents are now. I also saw a sled that was longer than a 151" track. What it was is a mystery. It was in town and had one of those half covers that cover just the hood. As for being a test pilot; one of the two I saw was caught in an Avalanche and luckily rode it out but hey I'd give it a shot if offered the chance
.
If there is one time I regreted having my Whiteknuckle exhaust it was Saturday. As I topped a hill two guys in a group of about 12 scrambled to cover up a '06 prototype they were taking pics of. The wife and I were run off without even getting within 20 yards of the tarped sled.
While going back down the trail we past two Yamaha test riders heading up there. These guys test new ideas, some might be seen and some might not. The second sled had some really wild looking flat black plastic intake cowls on both sides of the hood where the current vents are now. I also saw a sled that was longer than a 151" track. What it was is a mystery. It was in town and had one of those half covers that cover just the hood. As for being a test pilot; one of the two I saw was caught in an Avalanche and luckily rode it out but hey I'd give it a shot if offered the chance
.
buckeye,nothing against your carbed set up, im sure it makes plenty of power and runs great.all i am saying is no matter how well you have a carbed turbo set up dialed in you could make another 5-10% more power with e.f.i.
morrisond
Expert
Wild looking intake cowls? Could it be ram air injection for a new Rx-1 motor based on the current sportbike? That engine has 172 hp, 180hp with RAM air. We can only hope. It for sure would be one way to take down an Mach Z. The Z wouldn't have any excuses either as the heavy 4 stroke(I saw actaul weights and the '05RX-1 was within 10 lbs of the Z with Electric Start so it's not really that heavy) would have no displacement advantage over the Z. The 4 stroke would make more power than the 2 stroke(although not as much torque at peak).
smokeless1
Pro
Hebi
Give your old dad a chance. He will come round as more and more 4 strokes show up on the market. Personally, I think that with epa reg coming down the pipe, it will become increasingly harder and harder to meet those specs with an oil burner, without a catylitic converter in there somewhere. Aside from creating some ceramic components that need no oil, two strokers are going the way of the steam engines. Fun to play with but way out of the mainstream.
I think the industry is at a Precipice. You add well designed 4 stroke engines with efi, which can be tuned with a computer, and which run right in all temps and conditions, and put a booster on it for even more horses, and the 2 stroke people will be looking at building something else in a very few years.
The public is slow to make those changes, but look where we are today? Everyday somebody says "I made the plunge" from 2 to 4 stroke. And most are saying whahooo.
Also look at the big switch over to efi in the auto industry back in the mid 80's. When it went, it went. Efi has that low speed torque that makes your head pop. I own two 2002 articats with efi, and they run flawlessly. They pull like mules and get terrific never before heard of mileage. I like them. Wish I could convert (without throwing in the whole bank account) my RX-1 mt. I would do it in a heart beat.
Give your dad time, you look at where the industry has been in 25 years and it should not take much to see where it is going in a hurry. All I see is 4 stroke.
Give your old dad a chance. He will come round as more and more 4 strokes show up on the market. Personally, I think that with epa reg coming down the pipe, it will become increasingly harder and harder to meet those specs with an oil burner, without a catylitic converter in there somewhere. Aside from creating some ceramic components that need no oil, two strokers are going the way of the steam engines. Fun to play with but way out of the mainstream.
I think the industry is at a Precipice. You add well designed 4 stroke engines with efi, which can be tuned with a computer, and which run right in all temps and conditions, and put a booster on it for even more horses, and the 2 stroke people will be looking at building something else in a very few years.
The public is slow to make those changes, but look where we are today? Everyday somebody says "I made the plunge" from 2 to 4 stroke. And most are saying whahooo.
Also look at the big switch over to efi in the auto industry back in the mid 80's. When it went, it went. Efi has that low speed torque that makes your head pop. I own two 2002 articats with efi, and they run flawlessly. They pull like mules and get terrific never before heard of mileage. I like them. Wish I could convert (without throwing in the whole bank account) my RX-1 mt. I would do it in a heart beat.
Give your dad time, you look at where the industry has been in 25 years and it should not take much to see where it is going in a hurry. All I see is 4 stroke.
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I agree with you, smokeless1.
I can already see that the market is headed towards 4-strokes.
As far as my father switching to a 4-stroke, I doubt that will happen. In fact, the ONLY way he will ever go 4-stroke is if its a Polaris. Myself, I see Polaris holding onto their Cleanfire injection as long as possible.
He's got an '02 Polaris 600 XC that has only about 4,000 miles on it. Last winter I think he only rode about 700 miles. Most of the time I spent riding with my brother and his wife and occasionaly my mother. My father just stayed at home and watched TV. Youve gotta realize, he's in his late 50s and he's getting to the age where his body isnt able to handle the stress of snowmobiling like it used to. I can sort of see him losing interest in the sport. He doesnt care about the new sleds and even some of the old sleds he bought to restore are not completed and the ones that are just sort of sit around and collect dust.
I just dont see my father warming to the concept of a 4-stroke. I would not at all be surprised if this 600 XC is his last sled. He is a die-hard Polaris man and will not own anything else. However, he HATES the Fuson and if thats the direction that Polaris chooses to go, he wont be getting a new sled.
Then again, who knows. He said he would never give up the old Polaris wedge chassis untill he bough my mother an '02 Polaris 600 EDGE X. He rode that sled and was so blown away by the ride that his '98 600 XC was being traded in before the end of that winter.
Its hard to say. My father is a man who doesnt like change. However, if he sees something that is better that what he had in the past, he will move up to the new stuff.
Personally, I think that if he rode a Vector he'd love it. The only thing that would hold him back is the name "YAMAHA" on the seat. Even to this day he still has the impression of Yamahas that he got back in the mid 80s. He remembers the SRVs, Exciters and Vmax 4s that were 2nd rate compared to the Polaris sleds he owned. He has told me stories about beating modified SRVs with his Indy 400. He literally has no time for Yamaha, period. He doesnt understand why I like Yamaha but thankfully he is cool enough to let me walk my own path in life. He gave me a sort of hard time when I first got the Phazer 2 years ago, but he's cool about it now. Ever since he rode my Phazer last winter he really doesnt put down Yamaha like he used to.
I still really cant see him making the jump to a 4-stroke though...
Hebi
I can already see that the market is headed towards 4-strokes.
As far as my father switching to a 4-stroke, I doubt that will happen. In fact, the ONLY way he will ever go 4-stroke is if its a Polaris. Myself, I see Polaris holding onto their Cleanfire injection as long as possible.
He's got an '02 Polaris 600 XC that has only about 4,000 miles on it. Last winter I think he only rode about 700 miles. Most of the time I spent riding with my brother and his wife and occasionaly my mother. My father just stayed at home and watched TV. Youve gotta realize, he's in his late 50s and he's getting to the age where his body isnt able to handle the stress of snowmobiling like it used to. I can sort of see him losing interest in the sport. He doesnt care about the new sleds and even some of the old sleds he bought to restore are not completed and the ones that are just sort of sit around and collect dust.
I just dont see my father warming to the concept of a 4-stroke. I would not at all be surprised if this 600 XC is his last sled. He is a die-hard Polaris man and will not own anything else. However, he HATES the Fuson and if thats the direction that Polaris chooses to go, he wont be getting a new sled.
Then again, who knows. He said he would never give up the old Polaris wedge chassis untill he bough my mother an '02 Polaris 600 EDGE X. He rode that sled and was so blown away by the ride that his '98 600 XC was being traded in before the end of that winter.
Its hard to say. My father is a man who doesnt like change. However, if he sees something that is better that what he had in the past, he will move up to the new stuff.
Personally, I think that if he rode a Vector he'd love it. The only thing that would hold him back is the name "YAMAHA" on the seat. Even to this day he still has the impression of Yamahas that he got back in the mid 80s. He remembers the SRVs, Exciters and Vmax 4s that were 2nd rate compared to the Polaris sleds he owned. He has told me stories about beating modified SRVs with his Indy 400. He literally has no time for Yamaha, period. He doesnt understand why I like Yamaha but thankfully he is cool enough to let me walk my own path in life. He gave me a sort of hard time when I first got the Phazer 2 years ago, but he's cool about it now. Ever since he rode my Phazer last winter he really doesnt put down Yamaha like he used to.
I still really cant see him making the jump to a 4-stroke though...
Hebi
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
I love power, we all do. I'd purchase a Turbo sled from a manufacturer before putting on a aftermarket turbo.
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Or any performance mod for that matter.
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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Hebi, watch for Polaris to throw their former PWC 150 HP turbo 4-stroke in a sled probably for 06. They spent too much R&D money on that engine to let it die on the vine.
Bakemono
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Mighty, that is not Polaris' engine.
It was designed and built for them by a company in Germany.
I dont know for sure who made the engine, but my brother is a Polaris stockholder so he gets the quarterly reports and it talked about a company in Germany who made that engine for Polaris.
I think it will be very interesting to see how the other OEMs are going to make their 2-strokes meet emissions. I think the days of the 140 hp F7s are numbered. The only choice they will have to keep up with the regulations will be to detune them and run them as lean as possible. This will lessen the power (you will probably see 120 hp being the limit for a 2-stroke) and by leaning them down you will limit their already limited durability.
Hebi
It was designed and built for them by a company in Germany.
I dont know for sure who made the engine, but my brother is a Polaris stockholder so he gets the quarterly reports and it talked about a company in Germany who made that engine for Polaris.
I think it will be very interesting to see how the other OEMs are going to make their 2-strokes meet emissions. I think the days of the 140 hp F7s are numbered. The only choice they will have to keep up with the regulations will be to detune them and run them as lean as possible. This will lessen the power (you will probably see 120 hp being the limit for a 2-stroke) and by leaning them down you will limit their already limited durability.
Hebi
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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That's not what I have read Hebi. It was a joint venture with a German company on the design, not build.
sledheadgeorge
TY 4 Stroke God
JOINT VENTURE OR NOT. POLARIS STILL CAN'T BUILD ENGINES.
:ORC :ORC :ORC :ORC :ORC
:ORC :ORC :ORC :ORC :ORC
Mighty
TY 4 Stroke God
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I am by no means a polaras fan, but happen to believe that they make a solid engine are only second to Yamaha now with their Liberty engines. It use to be Rotax in my book but not since the Rotary valved engines went bye-bye :ORCsledheadgeorge said:
race24x
TY 4 Stroke Master
I think you will see a 180 Hp turbo fuel injected motor. Turbos can produce more but to stay dependable within the current engine you wouldnt want to go to wild. FI is easier to setup turbo and runs better. IMO personally I want to swap my motor out with my bike motor with a turbo 500 HP Hayabusa motor. Bring on your little pewny Mach z
Hebi, don't give up on your dad yet. My dad bought a T660 to ride this season. He never hesitated to put the skis in the air on his Z570 and he's almost 72
