There ya go, something for all, now lets ride!Apex was a great four-stroke sled back in the mid 2000's, but life has passed it by in spades. Fantastic engine! In fact the finest four-stroke ever produced, but that chassis only belongs on a smooth wide groomed trail. Love my Apexs in the UP on those groomed big trails, hated it here around home, then I discovered the 1200 Doo and it was by far my favorite for all trails until I discovered how great the Winder was. I'd take any modded 1200 Doo all day long over the Apex.