Sidewinder vs. Apex

Bigblue1

Bigblue1

TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
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Location
NY
Country
USA
Snowmobile
Sidewinder RTX-LE
Apex SE
There has been much lamenting about how Yamaha put an end to the Apex and should have refined, tweaked, adjusted.... whatever. But for those calling for a new Japan built machine, which I can truly understand, I can not, however, see the logic in the Apex faithful. Believe me I was one of those. In fact, I vowed to never sell my Apex because of the smooth sounding four cylinder, power steering, quality etc. etc. Well, on my last ride my buddy's Polaris had blown up, so I lent him my Apex. We switched back and forth this first day, and fortunately, he didn't like my SW because it was set up for me ( I out weight him by 80lbs).

When you spend an entire day and many miles switching back and forth you realize just how outdated and heavy handling the Apex is. On flat smooth trails it is great, but when you hit even moderate chatter on into some bumps ( we ride Quebec so its mostly awesome), it becomes very evident they are light years apart. Maybe, that has something to do with corporate's decision to continue pursuing refinement of the cat pro cross chassis. I can literally blast through any rough stuff with ease compared to working my tail off on the older machine. HP helps too, but these SW machines, set up for the rider, do handle amazing imo.

Like my RX1 before it, I will raise the seat and handlebars on the Apex, which will make a big difference, and most likely keep as a back up, but part of me says sell it and get a 600 two stroke as the spare so on the occasion I have friends doo or poo blow up, I'l have something light to offer them, and to have fun with for myself on occasion. Just wish Yamaha could get out of the strategic box its married to and offer a trail performance two stroke. With its engine expertise, I am sure it can produce something spectacular, even by E-tech standards. All of the other manufacturers have managed to find a balance in offering both. Seems it could work for them too.
 
Also a apex loyalist, and I just totaled my prized apex a few weeks ago and will be moving to a SW. The ONLY reason I liked the apex was the 4 cyl. I ripped out the stock suspension years ago, custom everything (turbo, weight balanced, etc) and it was an AMAZING machine. I am worried the new winder will be a let down in the rough trail compared to mine with a ZX2. People can call it fat, heavy, whatever you want but the suspension was the demise of that sled, it just got outclassed. Was it not for morons like me customizing the suspensions I would have dumped it long ago. Instead it proved to me that weight is a non issue in trail riding (just needs to be in the right spot), power makes up most of the fun, and anyone that rides ANY sled without understanding and setting up a suspension to match you and your riding style is doing a disservice to themselves and possibly bashing the make/model because of it. I'm so excited to ride my SW for the first time and compare to my 100% perfectly set up apex. I will be honest on which one I prefer.
 
kinger said:
Also a apex loyalist, and I just totaled my prized apex a few weeks ago and will be moving to a SW. The ONLY reason I liked the apex was the 4 cyl. I ripped out the stock suspension years ago, custom everything (turbo, weight balanced, etc) and it was an AMAZING machine. I am worried the new winder will be a let down in the rough trail compared to mine with a ZX2. People can call it fat, heavy, whatever you want but the suspension was the demise of that sled, it just got outclassed. Was it not for morons like me customizing the suspensions I would have dumped it long ago. Instead it proved to me that weight is a non issue in trail riding (just needs to be in the right spot), power makes up most of the fun, and anyone that rides ANY sled without understanding and setting up a suspension to match you and your riding style is doing a disservice to themselves and possibly bashing the make/model because of it. I'm so excited to ride my SW for the first time and compare to my 100% perfectly set up apex. I will be honest on which one I prefer.
Click to expand...
I did all I wanted to on the apex, tall seat, hygear...etc etc....and for any who had no issue with rider back sleds, it's awesome. Don't even feel most stutters. However....my son in law summed it up. The sidewinder se is about as perfect a sled as he's ridden (ex ski doo guy, like
me) all things considered, power, ride, handling, solid feeling, flat jumping, mileage...
And I tend to agree, AFTER it is adjusted to the way you ride.
 
My Dad was a die hard Apex rider who put on 30,000 miles split between an Attak GT and a 2012 with EPS. He was very hesitant to move to the SW. The first few rides this year I was getting the impression that he wasn't digging his SW LTX SE. He added pilot skis and we made some suspension changes to make it handle better. Him and I went on a 650 mile ride swapping between the SW and his wife's Vector LTX EPS. The ergo's on the SW were soo much nicer. I could tell he was liking it better, but he still commented on his Apex often.

The final nail in the Apex coffin was the Barn of Parts MPS kit. He added that kit and its all I've heard about since. He no longer misses his Apex.
 
I agree that a market for a big twin two-stroke still exists, however, yours truly will never buy one.
They lack bottom end and mid-range power. I also have grown to dislike the sound of them after riding a four stroke for years now.
I also could never go back to carrying and buying oil on a regular basis.
 
kinger said:
Also a apex loyalist, and I just totaled my prized apex a few weeks ago and will be moving to a SW. The ONLY reason I liked the apex was the 4 cyl. I ripped out the stock suspension years ago, custom everything (turbo, weight balanced, etc) and it was an AMAZING machine. I am worried the new winder will be a let down in the rough trail compared to mine with a ZX2. People can call it fat, heavy, whatever you want but the suspension was the demise of that sled, it just got outclassed. Was it not for morons like me customizing the suspensions I would have dumped it long ago. Instead it proved to me that weight is a non issue in trail riding (just needs to be in the right spot), power makes up most of the fun, and anyone that rides ANY sled without understanding and setting up a suspension to match you and your riding style is doing a disservice to themselves and possibly bashing the make/model because of it. I'm so excited to ride my SW for the first time and compare to my 100% perfectly set up apex. I will be honest on which one I prefer.
Click to expand...
Kinger you know me, I've been building rx and apex's since 02 even 1 rapex! Suspensions, shocks, seats skis......TURBOS! But when I built my 1st viper XTX I went WOW. Since I have been pushing them hard and faster than ever possible on the Yammi platform and now with 265 hp in a trail sled and almost 400 in the 14 drag sled I have reached Nirvana ! You will love this chassis

Oh btw sorry to hear about the apex I loved the look of that thing.
 
I have a 2012 apex xtx and 2017 SW STX with 5k mile. Last weekend I went on a 180 mile ride mostly driving the Apex. I have to say the SW does have much better suspension but I one thing I noticed right away after swapping back and forth is that the SW steering felt very nervous compared to the apex. I could feel every nuke and cranny on the trails through the handle bars . I have also noticed this in the past switching with my buddies XRS 800 gade. I recently added the 6.9 pilots and its better but still feel a lot of coupling through the bars. Any one else notice this? Anyway just my 2cent.
 
Hammer Down said:
I have a 2012 apex xtx and 2017 SW STX with 5k mile. Last weekend I went on a 180 mile ride mostly driving the Apex. I have to say the SW does have much better suspension but I one thing I noticed right away after swapping back and forth is that the SW steering felt very nervous compared to the apex. I could feel every nuke and cranny on the trails through the handle bars . I have also noticed this in the past switching with my buddies XRS 800 gade. I recently added the 6.9 pilots and its better but still feel a lot of coupling through the bars. Any one else notice this? Anyway just my 2cent.
Click to expand...


Barn of parts MPS will make the winder steer much easier and take away that feeling of feedback. I held off thinking it wouldn't make much difference, wished I'd have done the MPS sooner.
 
I have only 65 miles of off trail riding breaking in the new winder. To early to compare to my apex which was mostly a crossover with about 70% on trail. So far in the off trail the new B-TX SE is amazing. The power is meh after the rocket impulse apex, hopefully a tune and exhaust will bring back the rocket ship. Things I don't like aren't really worth mentioning. This sled is pretty dang good. I didn't make a single change to the suspension just rode expecting to hate having a aluminum rear skid and non res float 3, they actually worked well. I tried to bottom it out in the whoops and caught some pretty good air time with it and it never phased the sled. I'll save my full review until after 1000 miles next year but I am honestly very impressed with this thing. I am looking to shave some weight as my apex was lighter and better balanced but I think I have a few options to surpass even that which cost me thousands on the apex will cost hundreds or nothing on the SW to achieve the same ratio I like. Still miss the 4 banger RPM and sounds though!!
 
kinger said:
I have only 65 miles of off trail riding breaking in the new winder. To early to compare to my apex which was mostly a crossover with about 70% on trail. So far in the off trail the new B-TX SE is amazing. The power is meh after the rocket impulse apex, hopefully a tune and exhaust will bring back the rocket ship. Things I don't like aren't really worth mentioning. This sled is pretty dang good. I didn't make a single change to the suspension just rode expecting to hate having a aluminum rear skid and non res float 3, they actually worked well. I tried to bottom it out in the whoops and caught some pretty good air time with it and it never phased the sled. I'll save my full review until after 1000 miles next year but I am honestly very impressed with this thing. I am looking to shave some weight as my apex was lighter and better balanced but I think I have a few options to surpass even that which cost me thousands on the apex will cost hundreds or nothing on the SW to achieve the same ratio I like. Still miss the 4 banger RPM and sounds though!!
Click to expand...
Get a good trail muffler and they give I nice deep tone. Sounds nice without the drone of the Apex. I've had a couple now and have settled on one in particular.
 
Mike, how much does the BOP steering change the turning radius? I love how the sidewinder turns around on the trail while everybody else has to back up to turn around.
 
Hey Kinger I know we just spent all day discussing the Apex, but you and the rest of the TYers are making me think long and hard about the winders. Love the looks of them. Kind of tired of the 4-stroke weight though. Also sat on a few winders. Much different seating position than the Apex. Feels like your sitting much higher on top of the sled where the Apex has a sit in feel. Decisions Decisions
 
I just picked up an xtx winder after owning 2-2007 Yamaha Apex/Attak and a 2011 apex xtx.

I'm not nearly as picky as all of you doing updates on the SW already but initial reports. Way better gas mileage, when expecting the "ski lift" while turning it was non existent for me.

Very happy to have made the change. Just hope I don't regret it based on the reliability I've come to expect all these years
 
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