Barn of Parts Chain Tension Solution

[snowfever27]

I love all the BOP products I’ve purchased and I’d definitely order up a better chain tensioner, or measuring system. If Travis sells it, he’s done the R+D and the product works.

 

[Motorhead]

Here is my observation. With the cover off, hand tightening takes the slack out of the chain. Loosening 1.5 turns allows the spring to hold in the excess chain(slack) during forward motion (load). When you decelerate the chain pushes the roller up against the tensioner screw limiting the slack on the unloaded(opposite) side of the chain. none of this should cause failure of a bushing that is held static unless in reverse. I agree with the thought that the wobble in the bushing causes wear. Out of the three sleds in my group, only mine has not failed. I am the adjuster of all three. As a 30 year Cat man I have to admit that cat tolerances have always been poor compared to Yamaha. Where the research needs to look, is at the diameter of the right side jackshaft mating surface with the bushing. If too tight, they will wear out in reverse. if too loose, the reverse gear will un-mesh and bur the gear, and not reengage. I think between sled to sled variances in shaft diameters and wear in the gears is the culprit. My solution has been a new top gear every season. Cat gear is under $40.us. As I finish this too long post(sorry). We know how to properly adjust chains for the most part. It's poor design, just for the sake of push button reverse. Something to better hold the two gears together is the answer. That and proper QC from Cat. Spaceman

I would love to see how the chain is acting when both under hard acceleration, and under quick braking!
My riding style has a lot to do with why I get a lot of chain stretch, and I think that the incredible brake system has a bit to do with it.

Let’s say that I am being semi aggressive on the Big twisties. As I prepare for a curve at a high rate of speed all I have to do is use one finger to adjust my speed and placement on that trail prior to coming into it. That brake works so dam easy you can go from slowing down just a bit, to an almost track lock very easily! That chain must be doing some crazy stuff both during the braking and when letting off the brake, never mind getting in to the throttle again which is exactly what happens. Just get on an Apex if you can and you will realize just how much extra hand pressure and brake pull distance is needed on that lever!
Sidewinder brake system is just crazy easy to use and I think that off and on causes some of my chain stretch. So keeping my chain at just the right spot would be what I am looking for also.

Open case with a video on the open trail would be interesting while riding semi aggressive.
I rarely do (To the bar) corner to corner with this sled, but I do ride it hard enough.

Buddy bought a used 17 RTX-LE with 9K on it. No damage to his chaincase interior until he added a new chain and top gear. I knew it would show some damage when we checked his chain tension, it was also at 2.5 - 3 turns out. His top gear still look new, but he too had damage after riding it for 800-1000 miles. We both ride much the same, semi aggressive as described. This may have nothing to do with Travis’s innovated upcoming design, but thanks for listening to my thoughts regarding chaincase chain tension and why the chains stretch so much!

 

[ClutchMaster]

I would love to see how the chain is acting when both under hard acceleration, and under quick braking!
My riding style has a lot to do with why I get a lot of chain stretch, and I think that the incredible brake system has a bit to do with it.

Let’s say that I am being semi aggressive on the Big twisties. As I prepare for a curve at a high rate of speed all I have to do is use one finger to adjust my speed and placement on that trail prior to coming into it. That brake works so dam easy you can go from slowing down just a bit, to an almost track lock very easily! That chain must be doing some crazy stuff both during the braking and when letting off the brake, never mind getting in to the throttle again which is exactly what happens. Just get on an Apex if you can and you will realize just how much extra hand pressure and brake pull distance is needed on that lever!
Sidewinder brake system is just crazy easy to use and I think that off and on causes some of my chain stretch. So keeping my chain at just the right spot would be what I am looking for also.

Open case with a video on the open trail would be interesting while riding semi aggressive.
I rarely do (To the bar) corner to corner with this sled, but I do ride it hard enough.

Buddy bought a used 17 RTX-LE with 9K on it. No damage to his chaincase interior until he added a new chain and top gear. I knew it would show some damage when we checked his chain tension, it was also at 2.5 - 3 turns out. His top gear still look new, but he too had damage after riding it for 800-1000 miles. We both ride much the same, semi aggressive as described. This may have nothing to do with Travis’s innovated upcoming design, but thanks for listening to my thoughts regarding chaincase chain tension and why the chains stretch so much!

I really don’t think braking has anything to do with chain fatigue on our machines. The caliper is located on the driveshaft not the jackshaft like the older sleds. So unless you are failing to let off the gas during braking it’s only slowing down the jackshaft on decel.

The brake pull is way too easy imo. It’s so touchy I find myself locking up the track when I really don’t want that. It’s literally about 1/2lb of force and it locks the track up, I’m not that weak, I would rather have more control.

As far as chain stretch goes, after the initial break-in they really aren’t bad compared too the old silent chains. I have double the power now and adjust my chain about the same interval as my old 600cc machine.

Different strokes for different folks I guess



When you say his sprocket looked good after 9K, but had damage after 1000 miles?
I’m confused?

 

[Motorhead]

Here is my observation. With the cover off, hand tightening takes the slack out of the chain. Loosening 1.5 turns allows the spring to hold in the excess chain(slack) during forward motion (load). When you decelerate the chain pushes the roller up against the tensioner screw limiting the slack on the unloaded(opposite) side of the chain. none of this should cause failure of a bushing that is held static unless in reverse. I agree with the thought that the wobble in the bushing causes wear. Out of the three sleds in my group, only mine has not failed. I am the adjuster of all three. As a 30 year Cat man I have to admit that cat tolerances have always been poor compared to Yamaha. Where the research needs to look, is at the diameter of the right side jackshaft mating surface with the bushing. If too tight, they will wear out in reverse. if too loose, the reverse gear will un-mesh and bur the gear, and not reengage. I think between sled to sled variances in shaft diameters and wear in the gears is the culprit. My solution has been a new top gear every season. Cat gear is under $40.us. As I finish this too long post(sorry). We know how to properly adjust chains for the most part. It's poor design, just for the sake of push button reverse. Something to better hold the two gears together is the answer. That and proper QC from Cat. Spaceman

I would love to see how the chain is acting when both under hard acceleration, and under quick braking!
My riding style has a lot to do with why I get a lot of chain stretch, and I think that the incredible brake system has a bit to do with it.

Let’s say that I am being semi aggressive on the Big twisties. As I prepare for a curve at a high rate of speed all I have to do is use one finger to adjust my speed and placement on that trail prior to coming into it. That brake works so dam easy you can go from slowing down just a bit, to an almost track lock very easily! That chain must be doing some crazy stuff both during the braking and when letting off the brake, never mind getting in to the throttle again which is exactly what happens. Just get on an Apex if you can and you will realize just how much extra hand pressure and brake pull distance is needed on that lever!
Sidewinder brake system is just crazy easy to use and I think that off and on causes some of my chain stretch. So keeping my chain at just the right spot would be what I am looking for also.

Open case with a video on the open trail would be interesting while riding semi aggressive.
I rarely do (To the bar) corner to corner with this sled, but I do ride it hard enough.

Buddy bought a used 17 RTX-LE with 9K on it. No damage to his chaincase interior until he added a new chain and top gear. I knew it would show some damage when we checked his chain tension, it was also at 2.5 - 3 turns out. His top gear still look new, but he too had damage after riding it for 800-1000 miles. We both ride much the same, semi aggressive as described. This may have nothing to do with Travis’s innovated upcoming design, but thanks for listening to my thoughts regarding chaincase chain tension and why the chains stretch so much!

I really don’t think braking has anything to do with chain fatigue on our machines. The caliper is located on the driveshaft not the jackshaft like the older sleds. So unless you are failing to let off the gas during braking it’s only slowing down the jackshaft on decel.

The brake pull is way too easy imo. It’s so touchy I find myself locking up the track when I really don’t want that. It’s literally about 1/2lb of force and it locks the track up, I’m not that weak, I would rather have more control.

As far as chain stretch goes, after the initial break-in they really aren’t bad compared too the old silent chains. I have double the power now and adjust my chain about the same interval as my old 600cc machine.

Different strokes for different folks I guess



When you say his sprocket looked good after 9K, but had damage after 1000 miles?
I’m confused?

Yeah I know that I do struggle a bit with my grammar and writing skills, but what was meant is. He changed out both the chain a new top sprocket. The chain had stretched and will continue to stretch but his new 22T still looked like new!

 

[WinderFab]

Agree with clutchMaster, brake is way to easy to pull..

 

[Spaceman]

I love all the BOP products I’ve purchased and I’d definitely order up a better chain tensioner, or measuring system. If Travis sells it, he’s done the R+D and the product works.

I agree. BOP has everything well thought out His items are the best.

 

[Spaceman]

Agree with clutchMaster, brake is way to easy to pull..

I one finger the brake and find it perfect. Different strokes for different folks. I do wish the handle was adjustable. A little closer to the bar would be good for me.

 

[74Nitro]

Here is my observation. With the cover off, hand tightening takes the slack out of the chain. Loosening 1.5 turns allows the spring to hold in the excess chain(slack) during forward motion (load). When you decelerate the chain pushes the roller up against the tensioner screw limiting the slack on the unloaded(opposite) side of the chain. none of this should cause failure of a bushing that is held static unless in reverse. I agree with the thought that the wobble in the bushing causes wear. Out of the three sleds in my group, only mine has not failed. I am the adjuster of all three. As a 30 year Cat man I have to admit that cat tolerances have always been poor compared to Yamaha. Where the research needs to look, is at the diameter of the right side jackshaft mating surface with the bushing. If too tight, they will wear out in reverse. if too loose, the reverse gear will un-mesh and bur the gear, and not reengage. I think between sled to sled variances in shaft diameters and wear in the gears is the culprit. My solution has been a new top gear every season. Cat gear is under $40.us. As I finish this too long post(sorry). We know how to properly adjust chains for the most part. It's poor design, just for the sake of push button reverse. Something to better hold the two gears together is the answer. That and proper QC from Cat. Spaceman

They could fix it with a new gear that is much wider. There is room there. Another idea would be a shaft that is about 1/2 larger in diameter. Or both.
Who knows, they haven't changed it by now, maybe a whole new chaincase is on its way.
Looking forward to seeing the BOP tensioner.

 

[cannondale27]

I really don’t think braking has anything to do with chain fatigue on our machines. The caliper is located on the driveshaft not the jackshaft like the older sleds. So unless you are failing to let off the gas during braking it’s only slowing down the jackshaft on decel.

The brake pull is way too easy imo. It’s so touchy I find myself locking up the track when I really don’t want that. It’s literally about 1/2lb of force and it locks the track up, I’m not that weak, I would rather have more control.

As far as chain stretch goes, after the initial break-in they really aren’t bad compared too the old silent chains. I have double the power now and adjust my chain about the same interval as my old 600cc machine.

Different strokes for different folks I guess



When you say his sprocket looked good after 9K, but had damage after 1000 miles?
I’m confused?

That could be reason I wear it out so much and go through a set of pads every year. I often tap the brake while under throttle to set the front end in a corner. Wish we had a hand clutch!

 

[Motorhead]

That could be reason I wear it out so much and go through a set of pads every year. I often tap the brake while under throttle to set the front end in a corner. Wish we had a hand clutch!

At that moment you are describing, when your track slows down or almost locks up, Once you let up on the brake, the track and lower gear now become the driver gear instead of the usual top gear driving the bottom. The opposite side of that chain is creating pull and slack!

 

[cannondale27]

At that moment you are describing, when your track slows down or almost locks up, Once you let up on the brake, the track and lower gear now become the driver gear instead of the usual top gear driving the bottom. The opposite side of that chain is creating pull and slack!

I know but coming from dirtbikes it works for me. FUN!

 

[Motorhead]

I know but coming from dirtbikes it works for me. FUN!

Well I am not saying that I am willing to change the way that I have always rode my sleds, or that I do not enjoy that quick brake system, because I love riding hard and that 1 finger brake.

 

[ClutchMaster]

That could be reason I wear it out so much and go through a set of pads every year. I often tap the brake while under throttle to set the front end in a corner. Wish we had a hand clutch!

I hear ya!
The amount of throttle you are at when braking isn’t above 1/2 or even 1/4 I assume. There simply is very little torque being applied to the jackshaft when compared to full throttle acceleration, probably has nill effect on bushing wear.

Here’s a test for all you who think chain tension is irrelevant. Run your chain at 1/4 turn out from hand tight, that’s the old standard for silent chain. Check your tension every 500 miles and readjust.
If you get 1500 miles before it starts popping out of gear I would be surprised.

 

[Motorhead]

I hear ya!
The amount of throttle you are at when braking isn’t above 1/2 or even 1/4 I assume. There simply is very little torque being applied to the jackshaft when compared to full throttle acceleration, probably has nill effect on bushing wear.

He’s a test for all you who think chain tension is irrelevant. Run your chain at 1/4 turn out from hand tight, that’s the old standard for silent chain. Check your tension every 500 miles and readjust.
If you get 1500 miles before it starts popping out of gear I would be surprised.

I am not arguing the point of chain tension relevance. More the point of, if you ride aggressive or semi aggressive the 1 turn out turns into 2 turns or more pretty quick. So what happens to the 1.5 turns out with that same scenario?

 

[cannondale27]

I hear ya!
The amount of throttle you are at when braking isn’t above 1/2 or even 1/4 I assume. There simply is very little torque being applied to the jackshaft when compared to full throttle acceleration, probably has nill effect on bushing wear.

He’s a test for all you who think chain tension is irrelevant. Run your chain at 1/4 turn out from hand tight, that’s the old standard for silent chain. Check your tension every 500 miles and readjust.
If you get 1500 miles before it starts popping out of gear I would be surprised.

Lol usually its only 1/4-1/2 but ALOT its darn near wide open. Gotta rotate. Man I am going nuts here from sled withdrawl!