Belt marks

[1nc 2000]

3-1 on that TP orange spring is way to light IMO. I run it 6-3

How do you get the helix on at 6-3?

 

[jonlafon1]

How do you get the helix on at 6-3?

Very carefully! Its a job, I do with clutch off sled and on bench. Twist and down pressure. You got to kind of work around the ramps a touch. Done it about 4-5 times so far. Matter fact I just put a brand new TP orange in the secondary this year. Other one had 5-7 K on it.. I'm running a different helix (38) then yours but I just kept testing while increasing twist until secondary temps dropped.. Pretty sure I was around 110 degrees. The black marks are a indicator but the heat gun is really the way to tell which clutch is squeezing to tight and or not enough

 

[KnappAttack]

Very carefully! Its a job, I do with clutch off sled and on bench. Twist and down pressure. You got to kind of work around the ramps a touch. Done it about 4-5 times so far. Matter fact I just put a brand new TP orange in the secondary this year. Other one had 5-7 K on it.. I'm running a different helix (38) then yours but I just kept testing while increasing twist until secondary temps dropped.. Pretty sure I was around 110 degrees. The black marks are a indicator but the heat gun is really the way to tell which clutch is squeezing to tight and or not enough

But that STM 38 is like a 45-46 Dalton helix which would require massive spring pressure too. I had one of those STM 38's here and couldn't believe how steep it was. IMO is was way beyond ridiculously steep. STM is out to lunch on their angles and not even close to Yamaha or Dalton. You need side pressure to hold the belt from slipping, and can get it with (less angle and spring) or (more angle and spring).

I would never wrap that spring that tight on his Dalton 35 as you are on that STM 38. I measured the angle on the STM manually and don't exactly remember what it was but can recall it was OVER 45 if measuring Yamaha's way of doing it.

 

[jonlafon1]

But that STM 38 is like a 45-46 Dalton helix which would require massive spring pressure too. I had one of those STM 38's here and couldn't believe how steep it was. IMO is was way beyond ridiculously steep. STM is out to lunch on their angles and not even close to Yamaha or Dalton. You need side pressure to hold the belt from slipping, and can get it with (less angle and spring) or (more angle and spring).

I would never wrap that spring that tight on his Dalton 35 as you are on that STM 38. I measured the angle on the STM manually and don't exactly remember what it was but can recall it was OVER 45 if measuring Yamaha's way of doing it.

Yea its steep. I concur.. It runs cool in both clutches with the 6/3 wrap. Over 45 ? Not so sure about that Mike..

 

[jonlafon1]

I can't help you with the TP spring as I've never had one on my drill press scale to know the pressures, I'd suggest to put in a new Version2 Dalton Black/Orange set at 90 with the 825, or a Dalton white Cat torsion spring (same as Cat sno-pro Green) at 9&2, they both have the same pressure on my scale and will serve you well, then tune the primary to that.

I have found that the 825 really does need more side pressure than I thought after blowing two of them last week on the big tunes with the hi-torque rollers. Even on the 825 after it gets a few miles on it, it needs more side pressure.

So a DALTON blk/orange @90 is how much different then a TP orange at 90.. No way those two springs are that much different. Point is he should increase twist UNTIL secondary drops down in temps.. And if its 3-3, 6-1, 6-2 OR 6-3 who cares.. Let the heat gun tell you where to twist it.

 

[1nc 2000]

I tried the tp orange spring at 6-3 last year with the 35 helix. It was way to hot just cruising down the trail at 70mph.
The tp orange was really good wrapped at 3-1 for the 240 tune. It would run good speed and rpms.
The higher hp tunes sounds like they need more spring pressure to shift out.
That xs825 belt sure takes some abuse. It probably would have ripped the 8jp in half doing that.

 

[DMCTurbo]

3-1 on that TP orange spring is way to light IMO. I run it 6-3

You must have needed 3 of you to get that sucker twisted to 6-3.

 

[DMCTurbo]

But that STM 38 is like a 45-46 Dalton helix which would require massive spring pressure too. I had one of those STM 38's here and couldn't believe how steep it was. IMO is was way beyond ridiculously steep. STM is out to lunch on their angles and not even close to Yamaha or Dalton. You need side pressure to hold the belt from slipping, and can get it with (less angle and spring) or (more angle and spring).

I would never wrap that spring that tight on his Dalton 35 as you are on that STM 38. I measured the angle on the STM manually and don't exactly remember what it was but can recall it was OVER 45 if measuring Yamaha's way of doing it.

I agree with you Mike on the STM angles.

The top pick shows an STM 42-36 and stock 35 back to back.

The second pick shows a Dalton 41-35 and stock 35 back to back.

 

[jonlafon1]

You must have needed 3 of you to get that sucker twisted to 6-3.

I do it by myself. Not impossible but its a little work

 

[DooZ]

I agree with you Mike on the STM angles.

The top pick shows an STM 42-36 and stock 35 back to back.

The second pick shows a Dalton 41-35 and stock helix back to back.

Not so much directed towards you DMC, but as a general question, what's the deal with these manufacturers, isn't there some spec as to how to measure/cut angles? That's a huge difference.

 

[VX1R]

Not so much directed towards you DMC, but as a general question, what's the deal with these manufacturers, isn't there some spec as to how to measure/cut angles? That's a huge difference.

That's a good question, but the answer is no. There is no industry standard for measuring helix angles. It's been that way for decades.

It would be nice for consumers to have a standard but to this day you need to do your research and pick your helix angles with care if using different vendors.

FYI...of all of the current vendors Dalton seems to be the most consistent with their helix angles following Yamaha standards.

 

[jonlafon1]

I will be taking pictures of a measurement on this monster angled STM. Comparing stock and a BD extreme 38 also. I have a brand new one here. Will post pictures soon. Need some garage time. Guessing it’s around 41

 

[Stubbs]

The Advent-Edge helix’s always ended up about +4 degrees from what they were labelled both start and finish. It really seems like STM might be using the same cut geometry to make theirs as well, they sure do look similar in appearance.

 

[DooZ]

I haven't owned a Yami other than a snowscoot, so I wasn't aware of the discrepancy. I can certainly see & understand needing to pick a vendor for consistency.

 

[yamahahaapex]

I can't help you with the TP spring as I've never had one on my drill press scale to know the pressures, I'd suggest to put in a new Version2 Dalton Black/Orange set at 90 with the 825, or a Dalton white Cat torsion spring (same as Cat sno-pro Green) at 9&2, they both have the same pressure on my scale and will serve you well, then tune the primary to that.

I have found that the 825 really does need more side pressure than I thought after blowing two of them last week on the big tunes with the hi-torque rollers. Even on the 825 after it gets a few miles on it, it needs more side pressure.

This is probably what Im going to experience this weekend. Hi-Torque rollers, XS825 belt, 6-1, dalton orange.

Before the change up my clutch faces were beautiful, if they start marking up off to 6-3 I go!