Blown Belt

[jonlafon1]

Before you guys start making the 8DN the norm be sure to tell those who haven't had them on a nytro or Viper which runs at 9000+ clutch rpm how quickly the 8DN wears into Primary sheave faces. It is far from a perfect belt.

Not sure I follow. I thought the 8dn was a softer belt compared to 8jp? The 8dn wears into primary sheaves? First Yamaha and learning

 

[jonlafon1]

I ran at 6/1 all last weekend with great results for 300 miles and no blown belts. Changed to Ulmer rollers before I left. I am planning on trying 3/3 as well.

I have only run 3/3 . And have slipping almost all the way through shift.. If possible clean up sheaves good and let us know what you think of 3/3.. Not saying one is better then the other but we have very similar set ups and VERY interested in what you find at 3/3.. If you ran 300 miles at 6/1 and hammered on it good not sure I would switch.. How was belt dust ?

 

[NOS-PRO]

If you see paint missing on the coils where they would touch when compressed, you are coil binding. Even if it is on 1 side area of the spring (in this case over the tangs, but in each coil). The coils shouldn't be touching at all, but I know springs twist funky and can show some wear areas....this should not be classified as a coil bind, but that's where you need to inspect all the coils to see if you are.

I have to agree with Mike on this. When twisted to 3-3 I have not seen coil bind. The secondary is able to fully compress with the spring installed at 3-3 but not at 6-1. I have tested top speed and it is always able to max out the gearing to expected top speed with no issues. Have 1500 km on my belt and it still looks great. Install good primary clutching, an 8dn belt and good rollers and there is no issues. Just my opinion.

You are not seeing coil bind because you are running a longer belt which is fine when you are 3-3 and starting to see it at 6-1.

You guys gotta quit worrying about things that are not there or not happening.

The factory engineers are not totally stupid!!

Coil bind is happening! Belts are breaking! I have been machining clutches for years now and Yamaha has definitely been a problem child....especially with the Vipers and now SW's. But, as Shagman has mentioned....He, myself and a few others have devoted our time to helping eliminate these issues.

The Viper had coil bind very badly and along with other issues that made the clutch not want to work. Casting flash was also a huge issue....but that is a deburring/casting problem , not engineering.

Yamaha factory engineers are not stupid?
Who would put a secondary together and not allow enough room for the spring dimension?
Who thought that putting a CAT ECU with a good running Yamaha 3 cylinder that used a Mitsubishi ECU (Nytro) previously would be a better option? Why did the race teams use the Nytro gauge and ECU, but the Viper was sold with the Cat ECU and gauge?
Who ever thought that the oil filter on a Phazer would be a good place for it?

I work at a machine shop and being a Quality Manager.... doesn't matter how many years someone has under their belt. You can have a business that has been successful for 87 years and still have an engineer come in the door with less than 3 years experience and change the whole way of machining a part that not only saves time.... but is also more cost effective. Why? Because people get lazy and don't like change. There is always a way for improvement. So lets all work together to get these issues resolved.....because if we wait for Yamaha to address the issue, (being sarcastic about the Yamaha flash issues and starter problems), another new model will be out.

 

[DC5]

6-1 is fine it will just coil bind before it reaches full shift, will probably lower top end to around 120 on the speedo at 9000rpm.

 

[sgauthier]

lol, well said nos-pro

 

[DC5]

If you see paint missing on the coils where they would touch when compressed, you are coil binding. Even if it is on 1 side area of the spring (in this case over the tangs, but in each coil). The coils shouldn't be touching at all, but I know springs twist funky and can show some wear areas....this should not be classified as a coil bind, but that's where you need to inspect all the coils to see if you are.



You are not seeing coil bind because you are running a longer belt which is fine when you are 3-3 and starting to see it at 6-1.



Coil bind is happening! Belts are breaking! I have been machining clutches for years now and Yamaha has definitely been a problem child....especially with the Vipers and now SW's. But, as Shagman has mentioned....He, myself and a few others have devoted our time to helping eliminate these issues.

The Viper had coil bind very badly and along with other issues that made the clutch not want to work. Casting flash was also a huge issue....but that is a deburring/casting problem , not engineering.

Yamaha factory engineers are not stupid?
Who would put a secondary together and not allow enough room for the spring dimension?
Who thought that putting a CAT ECU with a good running Yamaha 3 cylinder that used a Mitsubishi ECU (Nytro) previously would be a better option? Why did the race teams use the Nytro gauge and ECU, but the Viper was sold with the Cat ECU and gauge?
Who ever thought that the oil filter on a Phazer would be a good place for it?

I work at a machine shop and being a Quality Manager.... doesn't matter how many years someone has under their belt. You can have a business that has been successful for 87 years and still have an engineer come in the door with less than 3 years experience and change the whole way of machining a part that not only saves time.... but is also more cost effective. Why? Because people get lazy and don't like change. There is always a way for improvement. So lets all work together to get these issues resolved.....because if we wait for Yamaha to address the issue, (being sarcastic about the Yamaha flash issues and starter problems), another new model will be out.

I have tested the 8jp as well and did not have any coil bind issues. Top speed was 3mph higher than 8dn

 

[dsimonRX1]

I have only run 3/3 . And have slipping almost all the way through shift.. If possible clean up sheaves good and let us know what you think of 3/3.. Not saying one is better then the other but we have very similar set ups and VERY interested in what you find at 3/3.. If you ran 300 miles at 6/1 and hammered on it good not sure I would switch.. How was belt dust ?

I do have some belt dust, but not a crazy amount. I think 6/1 is a better combination if you're going to be trail riding for back shifting, but 3/3 would run better up top. I do have my helix shimmed as well with the 8JP belt. The problem is I'm now 2 hours from rideable snow.

 

[dsimonRX1]

6-1 is fine it will just coil bind before it reaches full shift, will probably lower top end to around 120 on the speedo at 9000rpm.

I hit 125 on the lake and still crawling higher but maybe that is where shimming the helix helped.

 

[NOS-PRO]

I have tested the 8jp as well and did not have any coil bind issues. Top speed was 3mph higher than 8dn

I have to agree with Mike on this. When twisted to 3-3 I have not seen coil bind. The secondary is able to fully compress with the spring installed at 3-3 but not at 6-1. I have tested top speed and it is always able to max out the gearing to expected top speed with no issues. Have 1500 km on my belt and it still looks great. Install good primary clutching, an 8dn belt and good rollers and there is no issues. Just my opinion.

Your previous post has me questioning how it won't at 6-1...how do you know this?

Yours is probably one of the good ones that is able to see top mph.....others are not so lucky. @jonlafon1 , his coil bind was bad.

 

[jonlafon1]

I do have some belt dust, but not a crazy amount. I think 6/1 is a better combination if you're going to be trail riding for back shifting, but 3/3 would run better up top. I do have my helix shimmed as well with the 8JP belt. The problem is I'm now 2 hours from rideable snow.

Thanks for the info! I will ride some snow for you!

 

[dsimonRX1]

Has anyone tried running

Your previous post has me questioning how it won't at 6-1...how do you know this?

Yours is probably one of the good ones that is able to see top mph.....others are not so lucky. @jonlafon1 , his coil bind was bad.

I haven't pulled my secondary since returning, but I could pull over 120 anytime on the lake and no blown belts with 300 hard miles. 6/1 the entire time.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

this is good progress. im going to stick with cat rollers and 6-1 until either allen or dave at Dalton comes up with a proven helix and spring set up.

 

[shagman]

Has anyone tried running


I haven't pulled my secondary since returning, but I could pull over 120 anytime on the lake and no blown belts with 300 hard miles. 6/1 the entire time.

You said above you have your helix shimmed. That is why you can run 6-1.


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[dsimonRX1]

That's why I went with 6/1 as my starting point. I ran the first 150 miles at 3/3 with no shims, but no top speed runs were possible.

 

[shagman]

this is good progress. im going to stick with cat rollers and 6-1 until either allen or dave at Dalton comes up with a proven helix and spring set up.

Dalton helixs are now available. Mine should be here at the beginning of the week.


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