Caliper movement /tunnel flexing?

[SPM]

I haven't noticed any bulkhead movement or brake pulse on mine after installing the wedge, BUT I have alot of brake rotor rattle at low speed now. If I apply a slight amount of brake the rattle disappears.

 

[Turboflash]

IMO, assuming the track shaft is straight and square/perpendicular to chain case and tunnel, what would cause runout/wobble is caliper side bearing and/or housing not square/perpendicular to shaft, meaning it's on crooked. I agree a minor amount of movement (less than 1/16") is common on these chassis but not allot.
I agree with Sevey (and Mike Knapp has detailed this as well) when one is installing BOP wedge, keep turning the track shaft when tightening to help center the wedge and allow it to find relaxed position on shaft. In the first place, make sure the shaft will float in and out of caliper bearing and is not bound up. Tighten the 3 bolts inside the tunnel that hold the caliper/bearing housing on, then, last install BOP wedge.

 

[Motorhead]

IMO, assuming the track shaft is straight and square/perpendicular to chain case and tunnel, what would cause runout/wobble is caliper side bearing and/or housing not square/perpendicular to shaft, meaning it's on crooked. I agree a minor amount of movement (less than 1/16") is common on these chassis but not allot.
I agree with Sevey (and Mike Knapp has detailed this as well) when one is installing BOP wedge, keep turning the track shaft when tightening to help center the wedge and allow it to find relaxed position on shaft. In the first place, make sure the shaft will float in and out of caliper bearing and is not bound up. Tighten the 3 bolts inside the tunnel that hold the caliper/bearing housing on, then, last install BOP wedge.

Thanks for your perspective on why this would wobble, and my understanding of what may have happened does go back to the ones who have stated how important it is to lock down this bearing/shaft, and not the rotor, by the method used to allow for a center and square placement of both when using the BOP bearing lock by way of shaft expansion.

So now I try and picture a shaft new or slightly used, with a large tolerance of say .003 - .004”! It wasn’t unusual to hear of a new shaft and bearing with that kind of fit, right from the factory. If one was to try and loctite these two, it is possible to have a metal to metal fit on a small spot of this mating surface, while the remaining circumference has the loctite on it. With this in mind, there are a couple of directions that the bearing could move, until all is tight and cured, and that could cause a wobble on the caliper because, it’s not centered or square?
If the fit was really snug, and you had to use some patience to slide the bearing over the shaft, well then, not much loctite would be left on the shaft/bearing fit?

 

[Fords4life]

The two of three of mine that i bearing retaining compounded, i lightly center punched around axle where bearing rides to take up the factory looseness, snug fit, still able to force on by hand, then applied the green lock tite on reassembly. This i hoped would keep things centered while compond cured, no ecentrick affect, works for me so far.

 

[Motorhead]

The two of three of mine that i bearing retaining compounded, i lightly center punched around axle where bearing rides to take up the factory looseness, snug fit, still able to force on by hand, then applied the green lock tite on reassembly. This i hoped would keep things centered while compond cured, no ecentrick affect, works for me so far.

Well I was utilizing something kinda like that but without the loctite. When I first heard of this problem, which had also been plaguing the Vipers before the Sidewinders came along, Cannondale had mentioned a way to slow down the well known wearing of shaft process. Peen the shaft in 4 spots at 90 degrees and keep the bearing well greased to allow for easy rotation yearly!

So you’ve taken it one step further!

So as my uncle G would say, “there’s more then one way to skin a cat”.

 

[Fords4life]

Ahmen... always good to have many ideas to pull from.

 

[KnappAttack]

If the shaft and bearing fit was tight there would be no wobble as long as the shaft wasn't bent. The engineers and machinists blew it on the driveline! BAD! And still haven't fixed it I don't care what they say about the 22's. The driveline is the glaring bad spot in the machine and they have no intentions of fixing it properly or they'd have done it by now.

I always tell guys when tightening the wedge to normalize the bearing on the shaft only snugging up in small increments while turning the track shaft and allow it to center and normalize, then tighten it up while still spinning the shaft.

Then check the thing on the shaft. Loctite is hit and miss and IMO a complete waste of time. Chances are it will solidify crooked on the shaft and then it will wobble with almost 100% certainty.

I'm curious to see the next chassis design to come out of the Cat plant if its that same pizz poor design.

 

[Motorhead]

If the shaft and bearing fit was tight there would be no wobble as long as the shaft wasn't bent. The engineers and machinists blew it on the driveline! BAD! And still haven't fixed it I don't care what they say about the 22's. The driveline is the glaring bad spot in the machine and they have no intentions of fixing it properly or they'd have done it by now.

I always tell guys when lightning the wedge to normalize the bearing on the shaft only snugging up in small increments while truning the track shaft and allow it to center and normalize, then tighten it up while still spinning the shaft.

Then check the thing on the shaft. Loctite is hit and miss and IMO a complete waste of time. Chances are it will solidify crooked on the shaft and then it will wobble with almost 100% certainty.

I'm curious to see the next chassis design to come out of the Cat plant if its that same pizz poor design.

Yes there was a reason for my thinking that the shaft may have gotten bent, but after looking at how the rotor follows with the caliper and does not seem to hit the pads while rotating, I can probably rule that out!

If shaft was bent, I think you would see just the rotor wobble.

But yes, why can’t Yamaha come up with a small design change on the shaft, to allow for a locking collar style bearing! Or at least an explanation of why that style shaft ruining bearing,must stay in production!

My guess to their answer if you were to call Yamaha, would be, Huh it’s the first that we’ve heard of this problem!!

 

[Motorhead]

Yes there was a reason for my thinking that the shaft may have gotten bent, but after looking at how the rotor follows with the caliper and does not seem to hit the pads while rotating, I can probably rule that out!

If shaft was bent, I think you would see just the rotor wobble.

But yes, why can’t Yamaha come up with a small design change on the shaft, to allow for a locking collar style bearing! Or at least an explanation of why that style shaft ruining bearing,must stay in production!

My guess to their answer if you were to call Yamaha, would be, Huh it’s the first that we’ve heard of this problem!!

On another note, how does one post a video on this site?

 

[beanie]

I haven't noticed any bulkhead movement or brake pulse on mine after installing the wedge, BUT I have alot of brake rotor rattle at low speed now. If I apply a slight amount of brake the rattle disappears.

Same thing for me . Goes away when the brake is slightly applied

 

[hellflyer]

I haven't noticed any bulkhead movement or brake pulse on mine after installing the wedge, BUT I have alot of brake rotor rattle at low speed now. If I apply a slight amount of brake the rattle disappears.

Mine is the same also!

 

[0degC]

Interesting topic. Makes you wonder if we should be locking shaft bearing. I have measured a few shafts and they are always smaller than bearing. So is this slip fit design to accommodate all this flex? I have owned 3 Procross sleds since 2012 and drive shafts have all been this way, have they changed for 2022 are they a tighter fit now?

 

[cannondale27]

The sloppy slip fit will not go away from the factory. Failures of the shafts and bearings are low to none as far as breaking shafts or failing bearings. Knapp is correct. Need a entire chassis redesign. The wearing bushing in top gear is also a indicator of whats going on. Anyone who has had entire chaincase off should pay attention to alignment of the shafts. There is alot of leeway at case and at the spar. Think about a .007" mis alignment at bearing transferred through a shaft 15" across tunnel to the chaincase side! Thats alot. Bet its easily over 1/8" on many.

 

[hellflyer]

I've had the bop lock on mine since day one. I'm at 5000km now and it's all good ,even running the stock bearing still. My tolerance on the shaft was and is very loose . I can see the the three contact points the wedge has created but no slippage.

 

[Phatboyc]

You think the wedge created your brake rotor rattle at low speed?