Add brake rotor to the list

[KnappAttack]

The one thing I am going to question you on for this set screw mod is what if the shaft breaks now? We have all seen it. Apex was real common. I 100% agree something needs to be done to avoid yearly shaft replacement. Personally on my low powered Viper Peening a GOOD shaft has been enough. If wore Loctite and Peening has been enough. I hope the set screw fix proves to be reliable and I have learned alot from you. Just worried and frustrated that everyone doesnt turn these in for warranty so they fix for everyone in future.

Well I doubt it will break with just one set screw in, I had thought about two or three set screws in, but decided against that for breakage fear, I figured one hole would be fine, but who knows, it could ver well fail there. Shaft breakage has not been a problem thus far on the Cats, Doos or the Polaris with these larger dia. shafts. I want to see myself how this stuff works to keep the bearing from spinning, so had to do it. No one knows still if this will even work yet to keep the bearing from spinning on the shaft, but it certainly can't hurt it, unless the shaft does indeed break.

I got my parts under warranty, but lets face it, it only has a couple years left on a five year warranty. If I have to buy a shaft so be it. I won't be happy, but I'm not happy now even under warranty. Its a poor design and another engineering failure on this machine. So IMO, both sides of whats attached to the shaft is crap, the chaincase and the brake side. All you can do is try and improve Cats flaws through out the thing. I'd like to see it last the test of time and the only way to do that is re-engineer this stuff, because its not going last as it comes from the factory.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I believe previous shaft breakage(on other models, not winders) is typically on the Drive side, where the power is being put thru, so that is the chaincase side. I dont see any type of forces being applied in massive manner to this area, with one hole/set screw. I think that will be fine.

What we dont know, is will one set screw do the trick to stop it from spinning? I like the peening idea since I peened it in 4 spots uniformly(12,3,6,9) around the shaft, so it is not pushed to one side. But i still like the set screw idea alot.

Out of all the crappy things we are dealing with, the Belt life was worst, and jury is still out for me if I have this cured with all the changes. Now, the biggest thing that worries my OCD brain is this bearing spinning. Im mad that I did not apply loctite to mine when I peened it. So its on my mind now. The oil tank seep sorta seems like a simple issue compared to this.

So, what about this aftermarket shaft? Is it harder or better toleranced? There are no bearings out there with collars, in this size...I spent a day searching. So that seems to be out.

I think what we need is for someone to step up(Hurricane?? wink wink) to the plate and have a new shaft made that can handle big HP, and also with a new design for Brake side in which it will accept a collar style bearing. It may very well have to include a new brake caliper/bracket as the new bearing needs to fit the OD there. So this could be a big task, but it sure seems to me it would be a big seller.

Do we even think YAM/CAT would ever change/update this on new models? Im not so sure they will. It sure seems like CAT has let alot of crappy design issues go on since 2012. Maybe if a new model is released soon, it will have all these items addressed, but Its not looking good at this time for new tech from either of these two manufacturers.

I only can hope they do....otherwise the only other game in town is a very wimpy 900t which TUNED will barely be as fast as our stock winders, and so that would be a hard pill to swallow going down that far in power and join all the sheep again.

Dan

 

[cannondale27]

I am glad you warranted it Knapp. Thank you. I will say my buddy 2012 1100 had his spray welded and has lasted over 10000mi. Good point about breaking on power side.

 

[SumpBuster]

I believe previous shaft breakage(on other models, not winders) is typically on the Drive side, where the power is being put thru, so that is the chaincase side. I dont see any type of forces being applied in massive manner to this area, with one hole/set screw. I think that will be fine.

What we dont know, is will one set screw do the trick to stop it from spinning? I like the peening idea since I peened it in 4 spots uniformly(12,3,6,9) around the shaft, so it is not pushed to one side. But i still like the set screw idea alot.

Out of all the crappy things we are dealing with, the Belt life was worst, and jury is still out for me if I have this cured with all the changes. Now, the biggest thing that worries my OCD brain is this bearing spinning. Im mad that I did not apply loctite to mine when I peened it. So its on my mind now. The oil tank seep sorta seems like a simple issue compared to this.

So, what about this aftermarket shaft? Is it harder or better toleranced? There are no bearings out there with collars, in this size...I spent a day searching. So that seems to be out.

I think what we need is for someone to step up(Hurricane?? wink wink) to the plate and have a new shaft made that can handle big HP, and also with a new design for Brake side in which it will accept a collar style bearing. It may very well have to include a new brake caliper/bracket as the new bearing needs to fit the OD there. So this could be a big task, but it sure seems to me it would be a big seller.

Do we even think YAM/CAT would ever change/update this on new models? Im not so sure they will. It sure seems like CAT has let alot of crappy design issues go on since 2012. Maybe if a new model is released soon, it will have all these items addressed, but Its not looking good at this time for new tech from either of these two manufacturers.

I only can hope they do....otherwise the only other game in town is a very wimpy 900t which TUNED will barely be as fast as our stock winders, and so that would be a hard pill to swallow going down that far in power and join all the sheep again.

Dan

I didn't see any evidence of spinning, but I used my spring loaded prick punch anyway (maybe 12 little spaced dimples) and had to tap it on after. I wasn't looking for trouble, though, because I grease anything I can get at...skiroules, doos, yams. too. Usually when theres no snow like now...lol
Bearing really looked good though.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I didn't see any evidence of spinning, but I used my spring loaded prick punch anyway (maybe 12 little spaced dimples) and had to tap it on after. I wasn't looking for trouble, though, because I grease anything I can get at...skiroules, doos, yams. too. Usually when theres no snow like now...lol
Bearing really looked good though.View attachment 144121

Gold digger carbide works well...

Dan

https://ty4stroke.com/threads/my-rtx-le-50th-build-thread-rockerdan.149801/page-30#post-1441897

 

[SumpBuster]

Gold digger carbide works well...

Dan

https://ty4stroke.com/threads/my-rtx-le-50th-build-thread-rockerdan.149801/page-30#post-1441897

I did watch your video!
I used a small bottle jack from the front cross rail on the slides to the front axle to hold the axle in place...it was really pretty easy.

 

[Mototown]

Checked over my sled before going to new liskeard tomorrow. Found my foot rest supports at back of tunnel lose ... another Arctic Cat repair ....

 

[74Nitro]

A manufacturer should know that a bearing slip-fit on this shaft will eventually wear. It needs to be either press-fit, have a locking collar of some sort, or a jam nut like pre-97 Yamahas that squeezes the bottom race.

 

[Sasquatch]

The one thing I am going to question you on for this set screw mod is what if the shaft breaks now? We have all seen it. Apex was real common. I 100% agree something needs to be done to avoid yearly shaft replacement. Personally on my low powered Viper Peening a GOOD shaft has been enough. If wore Loctite and Peening has been enough. I hope the set screw fix proves to be reliable and I have learned alot from you. Just worried and frustrated that everyone doesnt turn these in for warranty so they fix for everyone in future.

The RX and Apex to 2010 broke shafts in the 6,000 to 10,000 mile range. They twisted off usually under the riser caused by the set screw on the collar beside the first driver. On the other end I would not be to worried about a stress riser! I broke the one in my rx at about 9,000 miles, my 2011 Apex has original shaft, gears, bearings and chain. So the early RX Apex was I suppose common but at higher mileage. Not like the Doo's that where breaking them on the first outing.

 

[74Nitro]

The RX and Apex to 2010 broke shafts in the 6,000 to 10,000 mile range. They twisted off usually under the riser caused by the set screw on the collar beside the first driver. On the other end I would not be to worried about a stress riser! I broke the one in my rx at about 9,000 miles, my 2011 Apex has original shaft, gears, bearings and chain. So the early RX Apex was I suppose common but at higher mileage. Not like the Doo's that where breaking them on the first outing.

It was 08 and older. the 09 and up had a slightly larger shaft which was also longer and had the bearing in the cover for additional support. I saw a driveshaft break on a 01 SRX

 

[SumpBuster]

The RX and Apex to 2010 broke shafts in the 6,000 to 10,000 mile range. They twisted off usually under the riser caused by the set screw on the collar beside the first driver. On the other end I would not be to worried about a stress riser! I broke the one in my rx at about 9,000 miles, my 2011 Apex has original shaft, gears, bearings and chain. So the early RX Apex was I suppose common but at higher mileage. Not like the Doo's that where breaking them on the first outing.

That's interesting. Why do you suppose they break at that end...because the set screw starts a crack? Like a keyway in a stressed shaft, if not polished, can start a crack? (just had this happen on a kubota clutch cross shaft). Seems like the chain case side would be delivering the until surge of torque to twist the driveshaft, pulling up on it...love thinking about this stuff. And how to prevent it.!

 

[74Nitro]

I don't think it has anything to do with that set screw. Those hex collars were there to prevent the outer wheels from moving outward. I've changed plenty driveshafts and they all broke flush with that black outer guide wheel, not where the set screw was. The reason for breaking imo was from harmonic type twisting on the shaft. That is why Yamaha came up with the fix they did of supporting the shaft in the cover also. Never saw any of them break.

 

[SumpBuster]

I don't think it has anything to do with that set screw. Those hex collars were there to prevent the outer wheels from moving outward. I've changed plenty driveshafts and they all broke flush with that black outer guide wheel, not where the set screw was. The reason for breaking imo was from harmonic type twisting on the shaft. That is why Yamaha came up with the fix they did of supporting the shaft in the cover also. Never saw any of them break.

Makes sense. Guess my old apex is due..lol! My son rides it so he'll have to pay...

 

[Hotrodlincoln75]

For the record I had one 9f those skidoo xp with driveshaft breakage plague. None are immune. Easy on cat as these new yam are worlds better now under their engineering. My Apex was a horrible snowmobile.
Going back to this brake rotor, has this issue been resolved on the 019 models, and is really happening to all?

 

[KnappAttack]

For the record I had one 9f those skidoo xp with driveshaft breakage plague. None are immune. Easy on cat as these new yam are worlds better now under their engineering. My Apex was a horrible snowmobile.
Going back to this brake rotor, has this issue been resolved on the 019 models, and is really happening to all?

Nope, there no better in the chassis dept. Better than in 2012, well most of it but not all of it. IMO if the slip fit is loose it will happen to all. If its tight slip fit, maybe not, but either way, the bearing should be locked to the shaft somehow, and its not from the factory.

No, they have not changed the driveline or brake setup in 19. It has been an issue on this side of the shaft since 12. Its a poor design to say the least and an engineering or bean counters problem from the Cat factory. Yamaha has nothing to do with the Cat chassis here. Wishful thinking though.